EQ'ing Effects on AUX Also Changes Input Signal?

[ShaunKetterman]

Hello All,


Haven't used Pro Tools in a few months now, just booted it back up this morning to start working on a new project. I'm admittedly pretty rusty.

I used to regularly use the "Abbey Road Reverb Technique" which I learned from Bobby Owsinski in a LinkedIn Learning class. When trying to implement that now, I'm finding that the EQ that is intended to effect only the reverb is also EQ'ing the input signal.

In this particular case:

- I have four Audio tracks. On each one I configured the 1st Send to 'Stereo Bus 1-2'. The send level on each track is at unity / 0.
- I created a new Stereo AUX track, set it's Input to 'Stereo Bus 1-2'
- I instantiated a Reverb on the 1st Insert of the AUX track, then an EQ on the 2nd insert.

When I configure the EQ, it's EQ'ing the signal that is being fed to it from my four audio tracks (all are guitars). When I did this before, the EQ would effect only the reverb (or whatever plugin was instantiated on the AUX track along with it).

Am I missing something? This is driving me crazy. I shouldn't be this rusty after just a few months..??

Shaun

[edwinstar]

Hello!
Your Reverb needs to be 100% wet.
Did you do that?

[ShaunKetterman]

Hi edwinstar,


Thank you for the reply! Correct, the reverb is configured to be 100% wet.

[ShaunKetterman]

Just typed out a long reply, then accidentally closed my freaking web browser...so I'll do a short version this time lol.

Attaching a screen shot of my current session. It's been reorganized, so the busses from my OP are utilized differently now, but hopefully in the screen shot my routing is clear and any issues / errors can be pointed out.

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by ShaunKetterman

Hello All,


Haven't used Pro Tools in a few months now, just booted it back up this morning to start working on a new project. I'm admittedly pretty rusty.

I used to regularly use the "Abbey Road Reverb Technique" which I learned from Bobby Owsinski in a LinkedIn Learning class. When trying to implement that now, I'm finding that the EQ that is intended to effect only the reverb is also EQ'ing the input signal.

In this particular case:

- I have four Audio tracks. On each one I configured the 1st Send to 'Stereo Bus 1-2'. The send level on each track is at unity / 0.
- I created a new Stereo AUX track, set it's Input to 'Stereo Bus 1-2'
- I instantiated a Reverb on the 1st Insert of the AUX track, then an EQ on the 2nd insert.

When I configure the EQ, it's EQ'ing the signal that is being fed to it from my four audio tracks (all are guitars). When I did this before, the EQ would effect only the reverb (or whatever plugin was instantiated on the AUX track along with it).

Am I missing something? This is driving me crazy. I shouldn't be this rusty after just a few months..??

Shaun

Humm you post is not quite clear (more later)

First for starters As Owsinski relates the Abby Road Reverb Trick is, you place the EQ first and the reverb second (not the other way around )

Also note the advantage of a parallel effects aux track is that you can set its track fader to unity gain and then set the send levels from the individual audio tracks independently (usually at some - db setting unless you want a particular instrument swimming in reverb)

And so yes the EQ attenuates the highs and lows of the send signal before it reaches the reverb, which is the entire point of the method to not have the reverb processing those high and low frequencies that the EQ is cutting.

What is not clear is what you mean by

When I configure the EQ, it's EQ'ing the signal that is being fed to it from my four audio tracks (all are guitars). When I did this before, the EQ would effect only the reverb (or whatever plugin was instantiated on the AUX track along with it).

So again the EQ is supposed to be effecting the signal before it reaches the reverb and because it's a parallel configuration the EQ only effecting the signals being sent to the aux track and what it is outputting to the main mix but is not the outputs of audio tracks. That is the purpose of a parallel effects track .

So to clarify when you have a parallel effect aux track and if you put an EQ and then Reverb on it the only thing the EQ is effecting are the sent signals going to the reverb. So I do not understand what you think is wrong ?

[ShaunKetterman]

Originally Posted by K Roche

...So to clarify when you have a parallel effect aux track and if you put an EQ and then Reverb on it the only thing the EQ is effecting are the sent signals going to the reverb. So I do not understand what you think is wrong ?

Hi K Roche, thank you for all the great info! After reading your reply, I admit I was not completely clear initially.

Firstly, for the AR Reverb, yes, EQ goes first to remove the lows/highs prior to processing the signal through the reverb, my mistake on that one. I've got it configured properly in my session, just typed it out wrong

Looks like everything is good. Previously, when I enabled the EQ on the Send, **to my ears**, it sounded like the EQ was removing everything under 600 cycles to the entire signal, not just the Send signal.

To get my ears right, I placed an instance of the same EQ on the AUX channel to which the output of my Audio tracks is routed. When I enable the EQ there, I can hear what it *actually* sounds like when I remove everything under 600 cycles. It is vastly different than when I enable the EQ on the send. Still plenty of low-end to be heard.

So you are correct, everything is setup and working as it should...my ears are just extraordinarily rusty. As is my memory of keyboard shortcuts. It's terrifying how much one can 'forget' in such a short time.

Also, I generally wouldn't necessarily send a unity signal of a track to a reverb, unless I wanted the audio to be swimming in it. Coincidentally, that's exactly what I need for these guitar tracks. Lots of ambiance!

In any case, thank you kindly for your input. It was kind of like a knock in the head to gets things more clear

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by ShaunKetterman

Hi K Roche, thank you for all the great info! After reading your reply, I admit I was not completely clear initially.

Firstly, for the AR Reverb, yes, EQ goes first to remove the lows/highs prior to processing the signal through the reverb, my mistake on that one. I've got it configured properly in my session, just typed it out wrong

Looks like everything is good. Previously, when I enabled the EQ on the Send, **to my ears**, it sounded like the EQ was removing everything under 600 cycles to the entire signal, not just the Send signal.

To get my ears right, I placed an instance of the same EQ on the AUX channel to which the output of my Audio tracks is routed. When I enable the EQ there, I can hear what it *actually* sounds like when I remove everything under 600 cycles. It is vastly different than when I enable the EQ on the send. Still plenty of low-end to be heard.

So you are correct, everything is setup and working as it should...my ears are just extraordinarily rusty. As is my memory of keyboard shortcuts. It's terrifying how much one can 'forget' in such a short time.

Also, I generally wouldn't necessarily send a unity signal of a track to a reverb, unless I wanted the audio to be swimming in it. Coincidentally, that's exactly what I need for these guitar tracks. Lots of ambiance!

In any case, thank you kindly for your input. It was kind of like a knock in the head to gets things more clear

OK great if you have it working

But just to clarify
I am still unclear about a couple statements above

Previously, when I enabled the EQ on the Send, **to my ears**, it sounded like the EQ was removing everything under 600 cycles to the entire signal, not just the Send signal.

To get my ears right, I placed an instance of the same EQ on the AUX channel to which the output of my Audio tracks is routed.

First I don't know what "placed the EQ on the send " means . Because a "send" in Pro Tools is simply a routing option,,, it is not a track, and there is no way (I know of ) to place an insert on a send ??

And I am also confused by "Placed an instance of the same EQ on the Aux " ?? the same as what ? there should only be (One) EQ in the entire session with the Abby Road high pass and low pass filters (unless you want only the mids coming on some other track) Now note in my session below the other EQ's are simply straight up High Pass filters set to roll off at 75 hz to help eliminate any low end proximity boom

I could not make out the routing on your screen shot
SO

Here is a screen shot of a recent session of mine (and BTW I also really like the Abby Road filtering method for reverb)

So here you see I have an Acoustic Rhythm stereo guitar track far left (with two mono left and right guitar tracks (light blue) feeding it (for the a pair of mics I use on my acoustic guitar ). And a then vocal track Magenta
Now these are sending (yellow arrows) to the input of my Parallel Reverb Aux track (M7) in purple and then you see on that aux track is the only EQ in the session with the Abby Road filtering (lt. blue arrow ) and then M7 is my reverb insert (lt. blue arrow ) .

[ShaunKetterman]

Originally Posted by K Roche

OK great if you have it working

But just to clarify
I am still unclear about a couple statements above

First I don't know what "placed the EQ on the send " means . Because a "send" in Pro Tools is simply a routing option,,, it is not a track, and there is no way (I know of ) to place an insert on a send ??

Originally Posted by K Roche

And I am also confused by "Placed an instance of the same EQ on the Aux " ??

No problem, and thanks for following up! I'll run you through my setup here (hopefully utilizing the correct terminology) so it makes more sense.

I'll speak solely on the 4 audio tracks that I was initially asking the question about.

Each of those 4 audio tracks are clean guitar. They all use the same patch in my guitar effects plugin, and they all receive the same EQ treatment. So to save on resources (and as I was taught is good practice), instead of putting the guitar effect plugin AND EQ on every one of those audio tracks, I instead change the output of each track to a bus, then create an AUX track with that bus as the input. That AUX track then gets the guitar effect plugin and the EQ, so now I have only one instance of each instead of four, and it allows me to adjust the volume of all four of those audio tracks with a single fader. In my last post, when I said "put an EQ on the Bus", I was referring to the AUX track their output is bussed to.

So to summarize that part:

1. Four audio tracks, each Output set to Stereo Bus 1-2
2. AUX track created (let's call it Guitar Verse AUX), Input set to Stereo Bus 1-2
3. Guitar FX and guitar EQ instantiated on Guitar Verse AUX.

Next, I added a SEND to Guitar Verse AUX via a different bus, created another AUX track with its input as the same bus as the SEND. I then place an EQ and Verb plugin on this AUX track to act as the AR Reverb. So when I said "put an EQ on the send", I was again referring to the actual AUX track the Send is going to.

To summarize to this point:

1. On Guitar Verse AUX I add a SEND to Stereo Bus 23-24
2. I create another AUX track (let's call this one AR Reverb AUX), with its Input as Stereo Bus 23-24
3. I instantiate the AR Reverb technique on the AR Reverb AUX track

My apologies for the confusing lingo earlier. College certainly taught me the importance of using it correctly.

Originally Posted by K Roche

...there should only be (One) EQ in the entire session with the Abby Road high pass and low pass filters (unless you want only the mids coming on some other track)

Yep, this is how I have it configured. I AM using two different EQ's, but only one of them is for the reverb (placed before the reverb plugin on AR Reverb AUX)...the other is for the guitars themselves (placed on Guitar Verse AUX).

Earlier, though, when I mentioned a 2nd EQ, I was using it to 'compare/contrast' the difference between what a HPF @ 600 cycles sounds like on AR Reverb AUX, versus what that same HPF sounds like if I put it on Guitar Verse AUX. I did this because to me, when I instantiated the EQ on the AR Reverb AUX, it sounded like it was removing everything below 600 cycles at the Master Fader, not JUST the audio that was being fed to it via the Send bus. That's what confirmed for me that everything was working properly.

If it's still a bit confusing, let's just say that my routing is just as yours is when I look at your screenshot, and I thank you again!

[K Roche]

Ok yes now it makes sense.
So here is what I am thinking

I am guessing one possible reason it sounded like you were getting the 600 hz high pass cutoff at the Master fader -output is

#1 I am thinking maybe you have the SEND fader and the track output fader for the "Guitar Verse" (guitar group aux track ) set at unity gain ?.
#2 And you also have the AR aux output fader set at unity ?

IF that is the case (and maybe you already know this this ) but at the same output level through out the frequency range, and because humans perceive the mid range frequencies more readily than the low or high frequencies the Fletcher Munson -Equal loudness curve needs to be considered.
That is why for example Electric guitar amps have at least a Bass and High freq. tone controls and some of the old home stereos and most car stereos had at least "loudness boost " button to boost the low and high frequencies up to the perceived level of the mids

SO all you need to do to get a better blend of all the frequency range is pull down the AR aux track fader, so that you begin to here more of the non AR EQ'ed sound coming through from your Guitar Verse aux channel

And why for example in my screen shot what you see is while the M7 AR EQ'ed Reverb aux track is set to output at unity gain But you do not see the send faders from both the guitar aux and from the vocal audio track are set to -12 and -8 respectively Make sense ??

[ShaunKetterman]

Yeah, I definitely didnt mean to take the long way around with that one.

My Send level is, in fact, at unity gain. This is primary because I need these guitars to be very ambient. I guess I could always mess around with different reverbs, too, and lower that send level to reduce the impact the HPF is having on the verb AUX. All good info!