Waves upgrade?

[MEAT]

Originally Posted by Shorty Emcee

you're an idiot.

buy what works and keep using it.

you keep writing checks to digi dont you?

shame on you then too.

We pay for what makes us money. if you don't make money using waves stuff nobody can help you. thay are indespensible. they are fabulous plugs, even if the company is shady.

welcome to the industry rook.

there's a lot you can learn here. keep reading.

you think waves is shady?

work in the industry..........

LOL............I do work in the industry and have been for 20+ years.Waves being "indespensible" is the funniest thing i've heard in months!

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Mark Dann

My understanding is the same, that if you own a bundle, and you have WUP, you get whatever updates and plugins that are added for the duration of WUP.

Yes, it used to be that way. And it was nice -- made the WUP a little bit more workable. Little benefits every now and then; it almost made the support cost reasonable.

Now they changed their license policies after listening to us whine about it for years. They indeed play nice with iLok system now, but instead of keeping the old bundle license system they adopted the iLok license bundle system, which ties licenses together. Good for Waves, we (the customer) cannot trade single licenses but have to move the whole bundle at once, but they also painted themselves into the corner regarding Bundle Upgrades: now they have to have iLok replace the whole megalomanic license bundle instead of just letting the bunlde license authorize additional software. This is bad for us (the customer).

That said, I'm an ex-customer because of their policies. I sold all my Waves software 20 months ago and couldn't have been happier about the decision. I almost re-considered that decision after seeing Waves play nicely with iLok, but they should also honor their promise about upgrading bundles whenever WUP is active. Unless they don't, I won't reconsider. I don't know what it costs for software companies to update the iLok license, but it cannot be that much.

[Studio Studio]

Waves, the gift that keeps on taking.

[mixer]

Clients who come in studios (major or minor) expect waves... most don't have large systems and don't pay large amounts of money for plugs. If you want to run a commercial facility you need the equipment and recourses that clients want. The reason I finally purchased the z noise plugin (after many emails and very strong contact) was that I didn't want my clients to be confused what I was offering. If for one second I thought I could go without the waves bundles I own I would drop them in a ms. I own almost everything waves makes except the latest jjp stuff. Great plugins but there are others that do the job just as well they are just not as well known... That's my opinion. G.

[Table Syrup Records]

Originally Posted by MEAT

LOL............I do work in the industry and have been for 20+ years.Waves being "indespensible" is the funniest thing i've heard in months!

Ok, so I was pretty rude. I appologize MEAT. I was crabby.

I do think they're fabulous! But I also think the stunt Waves is pulling is BS!

I hope they lose a ton of business and their plugs get cheap! LOL

I'm in a better mood today, let's duke it out! LOL

[Duardo]

Being a Gold+RenMaxx guy for many years, I was covered under WUP and one day Tune LT and a couple of others were added. I did not have to "pay" some amount to get them, they were just there.

If I remember right the API and JJP bundles were added to Mercury a bit ago. This was another "free" addition.

I think that the difference here is that when those plugins were added to their respective bundles, they didn't raise the price of the bundles at all. So if you're covered by WUP you're not paying more for the bundle than you would have were you to buy it today. When Waves added Z-Noise to the Diamond bundle the price did go up, so they're charging for that since the plugin did make the cost of the bundle go up. I imagine that would also affect the cost of future upgrades to the Mercury bundle as well...

I do agree that this wasn't the best PR move on their part, though...if they had to raise the price to add it to the bundle, why not just leave it out? But I do see their reasoning behind charging for the upgrade.

[Fidelis]

The ONLY plugin that I miss from all Waves is RBass. That's the only one I could not find a good substitute for.

I think they really make some good plugins but their custumers policy is ridiculous.

And BTW I have a very professional studio and never lost a job 'cause we didn't have waves...

[Table Syrup Records]

My next move is FXPansion... VST Wrapper so I can run a ton of FREE VST's, many of which are good, and then buy the Sonitus FX Bundle which is cheap and has some VERY good plugs.

I still love my waves though. I truly believe they are fantastic, and I also believe they have contributed to me having more business these days. Saying that is not the case would be like saying going to a Control 24 from a FW1884 wouldn't bring me more business, or the same for getting some Neaumann mics. Maybe it's just people here, but them seeing and hearing these brands/models/plugs, helps me sell time. (In many cases people just see it and agree to track, before they've even heard anything.... stupid yes, but I don't care because it makes me money. And my product is dope. My work sounds great.)

Now.......... WUP. I can't believe it..... Even if they added Z-Noise to Diamond....... what the crap! The WUP was in place to keep our bundles up to date. So that our SOFTWARE didn't become "OBSOLETE"! The agreement and their intentions were and are very clear, and in writing, and now they're trying to say no thats not what we meant? It says plug ins, but it doesn't say all plugins "" ? WTF!!!!!!!!!

Shady.

real shady.

love their stuff. hate their business ethics

[Bentley Ferrari]

Originally Posted by 1m1

I just got off the phone with Tim Holbert who is the Waves customer support manager. If you want to call him yourself the number is 865-909-9221.

In short, he said the company isn't including Z-Noise in the bundle for people with their WUP current. We get the "very special price" of $400 for buying this plug-in, however.

I pointed out to him that Z-Noise is IN the Diamond bundle according to their own website and then I read to him their own WUP policy - "With Waves Update Plan, you’ll receive all supported host and platform compatibility updates, expert tech support, and new plug-ins added to bundles." His response? "IT DOESN'T SAY ALL PLUG-INS, IT JUST SAYS PLUG-INS". Wow. Unbelievable.

I'm one unhappy customer at the moment.

YOU CAN EASILY AND CHEAPLY SUE WAVES FOR THE FREE PLUG-IN.

This is not unbelievable. But it IS a very cut and dry case of breach of contract. I'm sure any other lawyers out there reading this would agree. Waves can't change the terms in midstream. There would have to at least be some notice to customers BEFORE said customers re-upped their WUP under the WUP agreement already published. They haven't done that.

But let's look at the terms. First, let's assume for the sake of argument that the WUP contract terms do not include the word "ALL." Irrelevant. The contract still says you'll get "new plug-ins added to bundles." Waves wrote the terms, and the law therefore construes the terms conservatively, with any doubt being decided in favor of the customer. If Z-Noise is not a new plug-in being added to the bundle, then what is? It doesn't matter whether the word "ALL" appears or not. If the interpretation of Waves' contract terms turn on the word "ALL", then Waves would not be bound to give any free plugins whatsoever. This would make the promise totally empty. There is not a court in the country that would interpret the Waves agreement/contract/promise that way.

It's so obvious it's almost ridiculous to have to argue it.

Finally, though, if you look back at the wording, the customer service pinhead is wrong. It does say "ALL." Look:

"With Waves Update Plan, you’ll receive all supported host and platform compatibility updates, expert tech support, and new plug-ins added to bundles."

"All" in this case is modifying the list of things coming after it. You only need a basic grasp of English grammar and sentence construction to figure this out. "All" what? The rest of the sentence tells you what "all" is referring to: host and platform compatibility updates, expert tech support, and new plug-ins added to bundles. If Waves didn't want this to apply to all new plugins, they should have made an exception for the last item in the list of things that came after "all." They didn't. And they have to live with it.

Again, this is so obvious that arguing it almost gives Waves' customer service rep's unethical misrepresentation a modicum of credibility it cannot acheive on its own.

Bottom line: You have the right to bring a claim in any small claims court against Waves for breach of contract. The damages would be whatever it costs you to buy Z-Noise (and any other plug-in they try this with in the future if they don't publicly change the contract terms before you re-up your WUP.) It's a simple procedure. You don't need a lawyer unless you own Waves products as a corporation. If you are not a corporation you can represent yourself. You go to your local courthouse and ask them how to do it. They'll give you a form to fill out. You file it and wait a few weeks for your brief court appearance. Waves will no doubt fail to appear. They certainly will not pay an attorney to do so (they have to be represented by a lawyer because they are a corporation--that's the law). They will either pay up before you go to court, or you'll get an official judment against them called a default judgment if they don't show up. It will be for the amount you show the judge they owe you. If this happens enough times, I think Waves may take notice.

[Table Syrup Records]

well said.

So uh, I need a contract for mechanicals written up for 15 compositions to be used by an artist undergoing negotiations with a label.

give me a call...

heh heh heh

just kidding (I already have it)

Could use you on staff tho....