Pro Tools, never again until reasonable updates

[Digi ETS]

Hi everyone,
My name is Robert Jasman and I am the QA Manager at Digidesign. I want to take the time to respond to this thread.

First, I just want to restate Digidesign's commitment to the Windows platform. We have good relationships with Microsoft, Intel and AMD. We are also continuing to expand our support for Windows products and when possible take advantage of new Windows-based technologies.

Next, you should know quite a few people in the QA department are Windows users, and are determined to broaden and improve our support of this platform. For instance, my personal system at home is an Asus P4C800-E based machine that I built and is running and HD3 Accel system. In fact, a number of our testers use the same motherboard in their home systems (a big thank you to the Rail Rogut and Nikki Smith for championing this mobo). Our test group is also looking at a few AMD desktop systems, including Opteron-based IBM A-Pro and Tyan-based custom models as well as Socket 754 and 939 based mobos from Asus and MSI. On the Intel front, the previously mentioned Asus mobo is tested, and we are in the process of looking at new Sonoma-based laptops from IBM and Dell.

Regarding why we do not support everything you want: Well, we are somewhat unique in that we make our own hardware, software, peripherals, I/Os, plug-ins and we also officially support many 3rd party products. Basically, we expect a lot from ourselves when it comes to Pro Tools. As a result, we choose to qualify and/or announce support for a specific set of machines or chipsets. We feel we stand the best chance of helping users have a good experience by specifying machines and chipsets rather than using a generic requirements list.

So, here's where you come in. Frankly, we could use your help to broaden our list of supported Windows PTLE machines, particularly laptops. So here's an open invite: Join the Digidesign Beta Site Program and help us resolve the issues you are having with PTLE. If you are interested, please send an email to [email protected]. Please put "Windows LE Compatibility" as the subject. This will start the process of finding the underlying cause of these compatibility problems and hopefully fixing them (small disclaimer: I cannot guarantee this, but having hard data will make it possible to address these compato issues).

Thanks for sticking with us as we continue to grow our support for Pro Tools on Windows.

-Robert Jasman, QA Manager, Digidesign

[ManFromTheBand]

k...i think you guys have convinced me to go with RME/Cubase SX...

I don't think the consumer should have to beta-test a piece of software/hardware that they paid full-price for...usually the beta versions are provided for free by the manufacturer in gratitude for the time people take to test them/report bugs...at least from my experience anyway (even the money-hungry microsoft has it's new Windows Anti-Spyware software available for free as a beta on their website...).

Thanks for the help folks - i was looking forward to my future digi rig...but the more i read - the less i look forward to using it, and the more i look forward to not having to deal with it.

peace,

josh

[SimpleNatureSpirit]

I do appreciate the offer, Digi QA, but even with Digi qualified hardware, I have some serious problems with the lack of sharing your input with us. You keep the problem reports private and your error fix efforts quiet. Most of the high end software I've worked with had a very open and easy to use database/knowledgebase for looking up and reporting problems. All registered users could access the site and obtain a wealth of information easily. Users would also get a quality response within 24 hours every time. I am talking about software that rivals your TDM systems in the CAD environment. This efforts has proven to provide quality software updates and new releases with great functional and enhanced feature sets. Special patches were created for specific problems in the current versions within a few weeks if the problem was found and verified (for you that would include continued functionality support for the OO1).

You have a lot of work to do to get back the confidence level of the v5 days. Digi QA is either very uninformed of what's going on on the DUC or real problems are just being swept under the carpet.

I will keep an eye on this thread if anyone wants to take up your offer on being a beta tester. I would hope that their experience with your group will be reported here.

[RatherDashing]

I sent in an e-mail. I don't have the "official" recommended hardware, but I did get it to work, so that may be worth something.

I am however skeptical as to whether this is a constructive approach. Expanding the compatibility list is like putting a band-aid over a bullet hole. The goal should be to do away with the compatibility list completely, or short of that, simplify it a great deal.

In any case, I'll let y'all know how it goes.

[SimpleNatureSpirit]

Maybe we need a list of computers out there, a very dynamic list, on the Digi support page that all you do is click on the computer and return a compatability rating. It should probably return a DaveC test result if it is available and who submitted the results. Sweet, simple, a much faster way to give users a lookup guide for compatable and incompatable computers, motherboards, and known issues.

[JMS40]

I'll confess, as a pretty vocal supporter of my 001,
when a friend of mine decided to enter the game in the Mbox/USB price range, I steered him to a competitive product.

Mostly because of the feedback here, on the DUC.
I just couldn't lead him down the Mbox road... or myself, for that matter... knowing I'd have to help him tweak/troubleshoot long distance.

After a career in analog broadcast production, he's now having to learn basic engineering for himself, and I was afraid a deep computer learning curve would sour him completely.

The unit we chose was truly plug/install/play, and he has
been creating freely from hour one.
I just mastered his third project in as many months.

There is something to be said for those commenting that, for an entry level product, there are just too many geeky hoops to jump through.

In the near future, I'll be faced with the mortality of my 001. And there will be some hard choices made.
Certainly not an original point of view here, the hardware
challenges not withstanding, I'm not pleased with the fact that my last two PT software upgrades coincided with computer upgrades... and I still lost performance. Both in tracks and overall application response.

The difference in screen redraws alone, on the same system, between 5.3 and 6.4 is not just noticeable, it's glaring.

That's not a good trend considering the market place.

[Digi ETS]

Hi,
I'm glad to see you at least open to the Beta Test offer. If you are not interested in participating, please consider posting a concise problem report in the format provided below so I can have some testers get to work on reproducing your issues.

Thanks.
-rj

Digi ETS

Sample Bug Report -

Summary:
Every time I stand on my head and whistle “Dixie” after recording, my computer crashes. (Except on Tuesdays.)

Details:
cpu:
motherboard:
chipset:
OS version:
storage configuration:
App: xXX DAE: xXX DSI: xXX
plug-ins:
NOTE: Does not occur on Tuesdays.

Steps to Recreate:
1. Create new session
2. Create new audio track.
3. Record 1 minute of audio
4. Stand on head
5. Whistle “Dixie”

RESULT: Crashes.

This is reproducible 86% percent of the time. (Doesn’t happen on Tuesdays.)

1. Summary
This is a brief one or two sentence description of the bug.

2. Details
This should include the build number of Pro Tools and the version of DAE and DSI that you are using. (Each time you download a new version of the app, you should use the accompanying DAE and DSI.) Plug In versions are not required, but we may ask you for the version you were using, if the bug is not reproducible in house. Additionally, any pertinent notes should go here as well.

3. Steps to Recreate
This should be a 1, 2, 3 list of what you did to produce the bug. Please start with the most basic information, e.g. “Create new session.” We need to be able to reproduce the bug here in order to fix it. Pretend you are here showing the test engineers what to do, because in a sense, that’s what you are doing.

4. Result
What happens? Does it crash? Hang for 10 minutes and then go about it’s business? Cause data loss? Is there a workaround? And if so, what is it?

5. Reproducibility
Has this only happened once despite your efforts to recreate it? Does it happen every time you follow the above steps? Does it happen on one machine and not another?

[Digi ETS]

I like the idea of a having an online database with Windows compatibility info quite a bit. Perhaps we can get this info into the Answerbase, which is already online and might be able to function in the manner you are suggesting.

Keep the ideas coming.
-rj

Digi ETS

[jjhuntfox]

It would be nice if the answer base had a bit more detail to it as well. Sometimes the answers arn't much in the way of a solution.

Here is what is plaguing me on a long bounce, 40 minutes, each time a 6045 error. I finally am trying it now with only two plugs on the one stereo track and one master fader and all other tracks inactive. Good thing I don't need the other tracks....

001 / GA7DXR+ /AMD 2500+/ XP SP1 / 2 hard drives regularly defragged/ Just updated to 6.4csd. Always the 6045 error. Now I get them while I'm editing. PT also seems sluggish and wants me to double click everything, I push the space bar to play and it starts and then stops after 2 or 3 secconds, most of the time. Never never used to get these problems before and I can't tell you how to duplicate them because they arn't "regular" just occur frequently. (Did the long bounce but ended with an error, file seems ok though.)

So here are two of the "answerbase" results for 6045:

In one case, removing a faulty hard drive (used exclusively for video data) from the system resolved the errors.
ID:8020 Created:05/09/2002

This error can occur if you are using a AMD processor with a motherboard which has mixed chipsets.
ID:25567 Created:09/17/2002

Maybe I should have stuck with 6.1.1.

I POSTED the features I'd like to see in the next LE product and expressed my displeasure that other interfaces, specifically the RME, have many of these features.

As a long time user I'm frustrated by the stability / errors I'm getting, again and again and again. I am glad that someone from Digi is talking with us about this and I'll try to help work for a solution. I just hope some fixes and a better hardware interface are almost here. (I really don't want a 002 and I really don't want to leave PT for an RME.)

Thanks,

John Huntsman

[Digi ETS]

Hey John,
Am I seeing a common thread of problems with PTLE and AMD-based mobos?

Please check out the post I just put up here:
http://duc.digidesign.com/showflat.p...&Number=790089

Please add your info to it when you get a chance.

Thanks.
-rj

Digi ETS