Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Post Production > Post - Surround - Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-16-2007, 11:21 AM
molmaniak molmaniak is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 52
Default Broadcast Standard - (Limiting)

Greetings!!!

I am trying to understand what is the standard and safety limiter settigns for Broadcast Commercials. I am using Waves L1 Limiter + I was told the standard is - 7.5dB for the Out Ceiling. Can someone explain this to me in a way I can understand please. Also the number varies from -7.5 to -10 from what I have gathered. Thank you


__________________
Mojo SD
PT 7.4cs9
4x2.5 Ghz Intel
4 GB DDR2 SDRAM
C24
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-16-2007, 12:20 PM
audiogeek1 audiogeek1 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: SLC, Utah
Posts: 266
Default Re: Broadcast Standard - (Limiting)

As for broadcast standards each Broadcaster has their own specs. Are you doing TV or Radio? To truly understand the specs have you set up your VU Meter to equal OVU = -20 dbfs. Also as for output ceilings if you set you L1 to -7.5 then you are -7.5 from Full Scale digital. Or +12.5 on a VU meter.

If the L1 is reading -7.5 db of limiting then you are hitting it fairly hard for what you are trying to do. If you have limiting of -10 happening then you are sending an even louder thing into the L1. that reading does not effect the output of the brickwall it only tells you how much it had to limit to get you to your desired result.

Mike
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-16-2007, 05:33 PM
P. Dennis Mitchell P. Dennis Mitchell is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NYC
Posts: 46
Default Re: Broadcast Standard - (Limiting)

Quote:
Greetings!!!

I am trying to understand what is the standard and safety limiter settigns for Broadcast Commercials. I am using Waves L1 Limiter + I was told the standard is - 7.5dB for the Out Ceiling. Can someone explain this to me in a way I can understand please. Also the number varies from -7.5 to -10 from what I have gathered. Thank you



Here's the deal.(for television) The standard in the US is currently 0 VU = -20dBFS. Set your Peak Limiter for a ceiling of -10 dBFS. Adjust your threshold (on the L1) so that you're getting the peak level to sit right at -10 on your digital full scale peak meter. Since most of the plug-ins for peak limiting are "maximizers", you can push the threshold further and get your overall mix to sound apparently louder, but this can also add distortion so use this method with caution. The L2 and the newer multiband L3 limiters do a much better job with less damage to the sound of your mix.

The magic box is the TC Electronics DBMax. A vast number of stereo TV spots are mixed through one of these. You mix your spot like normal 'til you think you are done. Set the max output of the DBMax to -10 and put it across your 2 bus and BOOM, your mix sounds louder, but your meters haven't moved! Worth their weight in Gold!

With the transition to digital, some outlets are raising their peak ceilings, so if you know the broadcaster, ask them for their delivery spec.

I use the same practices for radio, but I mainly mix for TV. Someone who mixes primarily for radio may offer other suggestions.

Have a good day!

P. Dennis Mitchell
Post Mixer
NYC
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-17-2007, 10:15 AM
molmaniak molmaniak is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 52
Default Re: Broadcast Standard - (Limiting)

Thank you guys so much I somewhat get it now...Is that fair to say?

Set my output ceiling on my L1 to -10 ?

then like a compressor, use my threshold to get my mix somewhere near -10?

for TV is this an ok standard?
I am doing radio + Tv Spots also


Thank you, oh and if anyone has AIM: slimils

would be cool to have some instant messenger support osmetimes..
__________________
Mojo SD
PT 7.4cs9
4x2.5 Ghz Intel
4 GB DDR2 SDRAM
C24
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-17-2007, 11:13 AM
EarHole EarHole is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 831
Default Re: Broadcast Standard - (Limiting)

Personally, I do as decribed above but that is the max output. I also use a pair of analog VU meters.
I've found that whenever I brickwall the L1 at -10 and try and get the mix hotter that in fact it just gets squished on air and comes out quieter.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-17-2007, 12:34 PM
airon airon is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Germany
Posts: 548
Default Re: Broadcast Standard - (Limiting)

And the louder you squash it, the bigger the chance of it sounding whimpier and less interesting on small TV speakers, which compress sound all by themselves !
__________________
"My ego comes pre-shrunk" - Randy Thom
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-07-2007, 07:28 PM
Major Tom Major Tom is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Canada
Posts: 25
Default Re: Broadcast Standard - (Limiting)

Ok... so when you guys mix for Tv or radio do you try to keep close to 0 VU or push it higher (+2, +3) ??? on your analog meters?
I mean 'loudness' is more accurately expressed by average levels than peak levels...
and while on the subjet of levels and metering, if you had to choose between an analog VU meter and dorrough meters for broadcasting mixing, which would you prefer?
Chris
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-15-2007, 10:19 PM
Stormie Stormie is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Asia
Posts: 8
Default Re: Broadcast Standard - (Limiting)

Hey Tom,

I once had this problem, but since getting the L2 and L3, my job has been much easier. On my side, i use a Wohler LM60-2 PPM, but specs wise, u will have to get it from ur broadcat station or anyone who might be formulating it.
__________________
Living in Your World

http://pinkmonk.wordpress.com
http://pinkmonk.muxtape.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-16-2007, 06:28 AM
Sonsey Sonsey is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Ottawa,Ontario,Canada
Posts: 500
Default Re: Broadcast Standard - (Limiting)

Hey Tom,

Here in the Great White North, the broadcasters still use VU as a reference... hell CBC still wants stuff in MONO for some programs! While most of them give digital peak readings in their Tech Specs, they still QC on a VU meter, so a VU is essential. As far as Needle versus LED meter, either or works for me as long as you know they're calibrated correctly. We use a Phase 3 VU here and never had a QC problem with it... even with SRC.
__________________
"Ya canna change the laws of physics..."
-Montgomery Scott

Howard Sonnenburg
Atomic Audio
Ottawa, ON
Canada
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Broadcast Standard - (Limiting) molmaniak Post - Surround - Video 0 10-16-2007 11:21 AM
Canada broadcast standard levels... player Post - Surround - Video 5 04-02-2005 11:45 PM
Compressing AND Limiting? pkcraft 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 12 12-30-2002 04:54 AM
Soft Limiting? What is it really doing? Shawn1272 Tips & Tricks 8 07-19-2002 06:59 AM
Limiting and compression. Garry Taylor Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 4 04-26-2002 07:32 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:56 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com