Protools- which system is the better Windows or Mac

[ensoniqdap]

I am strongly interested in acquiring a protools setup. I have been reviewing the various components available and now find myself wondering if I should get a Mac G4 system and dedicate it to my protools environment or, since my Winddows system doesn't meet the specs, if I should a newer Windows system and dedicate IT to protools.

My goal is to have a solid music recording system of say 24 (minimum) audio tracks and room for MIDI tracks as needed in whatever format they are supported (recorded as MIDI controlled audio tracks or recorded as MIDI tracks separate.

[N-G-NEER]

I'm afraid that's not true. I use a Mac with Protools at work, and a PC with Protols at home. There are a very few plug in that are available for mac such as the mc DSP plug ins that are not as yet available for the PC. The PC has a much greater performance at a far less expensive cost. and the array of PC products makes it far more attractive. ie there are two dual headed Video cards for the mac the Pro-max and the jerranimo 2000 the least expensive is $300. on a PC this can be obtained for less than $100. and when it comes to performance and stability the XP platform with one of the newer processors from say AMD will come in at $800 to $1000 will dwarf what Mac has to offer. The main reason you should choose any platform is how comfortable you are with it. If you are more at ease with a mac that is what you should use if you are comfortable with bothe platforms it becomes a matter of wich platform offers the plug-ins you want to use. if this is not an issue and your looking for price point and or sheer power the mac looses hands down. There was a time maybe five years ago when if you wanted to do any sort of art from desktop publishing to video you would always use a mac. or at least I would only use a mac, but things change and many of those programs are available on both platforms. and some of those companies have all but abandoned mac because of their ideosyncrocies and there lack of regaurd for there customer base. The begining of next year as I understand will mark yet another incarnation of the macintosh computer. what will become the redheaded stepchild of the new mac Firewire? USB? perhaps they will not use ATA drives in place they'll use fire wire only who knows? That perhaps is one of macs greatest downfalls. they make unanounced changes and there user base gets caught with thier butts in the air. Twice was enough for me. I got stuck with a whole bunch of SCSI gear that I could not use for over a year until a 3rd part developed PCI cards to take up the slack. and speaking of PCI cards whats up with that 3 slots is not even close to being enough so we must buy the outboard chassis to supliment Apples shortsightedness. Before you invest your money in either platform do your home work then decide what is important to YOU.
Good luck

[ensoniqdap]

I build WIntel machines, I have for a few years. I get pretty good performance from my machines but there are some issues with the OS. I have pretty extensive experience with Mac also. I would say I feel comfortable with the system and the OS. Mac's have always seemed to be much more stable than Windows machines. I rarely hear of Mac problems and in all the time I've used a Mac, I have never seen a Mac crash (less user stupidity: erasing files, etc.)

There have been times when it seemed that looking at my Gateway Wintel machine would cause them to crash without touching it ( Gateway was the computer system before I started building them)

Finally a PC can be made cheaper than a Mac but Mac's performance never seems to suffer the way a cheaped out PC system can... What I mean is that at each processor speed, you have to go overkill with the higher performance parts to get equivilant performance to a Mac. That 800Mhz celeron processor or the 800mhz PIII isn't going to perform as well as the Mac (out of the box) unless you really go overkill on hard drive video card, ram performance etc.

[King Kevlar]

I'm running a fairly simple Pentium III 550MHz,ASUS P3-BF board,2 western digital harddrives of 7200 RPM each,no expensive SCSI-hassle,so you see, pretty simple...

Now I'm able to run all 64 tracks on 1 Mix-Core,wisely distribute plugins on the rest of the DSP's and after that I use RTAS,after my DSP-chips run out.

Anyway,you could buy a pc like I do,and it can run very,very smooth.
My brother is running Pro Tools on a G4-450 MHz.
And the funny thing is that my PC is more solid than his MAC.
So the speed is not the issue,here.
When you buy a PC you need specific components and a lot of luck.
When you buy a MAC you get the right components,BUT you HAVE to configurate the operating system correctly,just like Windows.
Every time when my brother is pausing for a cigarette,taking a leak ,or whatever,after five minutes he comes back,...crashed....reboot.................*sigh*.. .................AH!finally restarted!
Opens Pro Tools............also taking a LOT of time and I'm running out of dots,here.
And when his MAC is inactive for about a couple of minutes it crashes...

I would say that there is almost no difference between PC and MAC when it comes to hardware,speed,reliability,etc..
But when it comes to software,I'd choose MAC.
That's why I'm also buying a MAC so I can have best of both worlds.

It's up to you... [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[nikki-k]

Hi! No offense intended...
It seems like every so often, a Mac-biased person needs to come in and ask a question like this.
First: Gateway puters are by no means a way to guage Win-puter performance. Gateway, Packard, Hewlett, etc- all of them are unique unto themselves. These are consumer grade idiot boxes (not meaning that idiots buy them, simply that they are made to be more idiot proof, and easier for tech support to help with, as they are custom made-hard and soft- for that reason). They are the equivilent of an iMac [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
Second: I have built and used Win-based computers since 1990. Sat in envy of Turbosynth. Cheered when the Turtle put forth Waves. Then Maui. Always a step or two behind. But, if one took the time to realize the shortcomings and bugs, they could be worked around.
PC's have always struck me as the "Heathkit" of computers, whereas Mac's have been like a Casio keyboard [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] The pricing is actually backwards to me- PC's should be more expensive so that ONLY those who know what they are doing would buy them. A Mac is simple: buy it, follow the set-up instructions, and go. Like a Casio keyboard, it comes with built-in speaker, all the work has been done for you, hot-rodding is discouraged, and you dont upgrade it: you sell it and buy the "new kid on the block" when Mr Jobs sees fit to try and keep in Kurzweil's shadow [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] (ok, Korg's shadow? lol) I actually admire Digidesign for getting HD under WinXp; with the infinite combinations of the multitude of hardware available to assemble into a Win-puter? Truly a nightmare.
A Win-puter is a hot-rodder's dream, and nightmare. Put it this way: You buy an old car, like a 1970 Hemi Cuda [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Not in one piece- parts. Now put it together. No idea how? Hmmm- go ahead and try. What percentage of the time will it come out right? If it does, how well will it run compared to the same car put together by an experienced mechanic?
I bought a Mac (dual 800M G4, loaded) for my HD3 system. GREAT computer. 3-4 months later Apple releases an UPDATE to OS-X (a bug fix disguised as an upGRADE), and Mr Jobs wants me to pay $150 for this "fix." How much funded the purchase of Emagic? lol- J/K!!! Then a month goes by, and my $3000 box is worth $1500 because new G4's come out. WAY better G4's. Can I simply uprade some internal hardware? NOOOO!!!!!! Sell entire box, buy new better box. Well, sold box, bought Hemi Cuda instead [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] since now Digidesign have released TDM HD for Win XP!!! Woohoo!!!
So far so good. Is it hard to get specific answers to questions on the PC side? YES. Are there less plug's avail for it? YES. But, it runs as well as the Mac version (for me), does the same thing as the Mac version (for me), and is easier to nav the "behind the scenes" stuff (for me). File management is a breeze, since I know PC's. And if I want a machine that does what the top of the line Mac does- but in half the time or less- I only need to spend $700. To upgrade from my G4 dual 800M to the dual 1.25G would cost $2000. Hmmm....gee...which to choose???
Sorry for the long rant, but it seems like there are just a few too many Mac users hangin around PC forums, looking for reasons to reinforce what may simply be their own doubts and insecurities in the system they choose because it is "supposed" to be a superior platform. If you are happy with your Mac, and use it for PT (or other apps), and it works well, WHY ARE YOU IN THE PC FORUMS??? Without good PC experience, you have little to offer. OK- you have something to offer: put downs of PC's, and an attempt to convert people to your way of thinking. Sort of like the commercials we see on TV for Mac's. Except Mr Jobs PAYS those people to say those thiings and APPEAR to prefer a Mac. You, on the other hand, PAID Mr Jobs to say the same things, with more conviction, and like happy Sat morning door-knockers professing to have found the TRUE meaning of life and the way to live it, you proceed to diminish all other "faiths" and go around uninvited preaching to others of their "evil ways." LOL!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
The two platforms are equally good at doing what they were created for. In competent hands! Grew up on Mac's? Stick with them- great machines. Grew up on PC-jr's and later moved up to PC's? Stick with it- great machines. Got LOTS of free time? Lots of extra cash? Grab one of each, and be Jack-Of-All-Trades. I am happy with what I have, secure in my choice, and would gladly suggest HD on a Win-puter to anyone with enough Win-puter knowledge to grab one over a Mac. BTW- notice I posted this in the PC forum; no need to go "preaching" in a forum that is obviously in existence for those whose "faith" lies with a different deity, who's *jobs* are well defined. Ok, that was a cheap shot...apologies...lol...us PC'ers have a different set of pearly *gates* we try to get through...but what's on the other side is the same though: eternal happiness, or at least the pursuit of it! Make music, smile, and then go out into the winter wonderland and.. Pull down your pants and slide on the ice!!! nikki [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Doc Adams]

Well, here we all go again.... The big "mine is better than yours"!!!!

We are strickly a "Wintel" studio (and old analog too)[bunch of 'dead-heads'] I could go on but I think the point brought out in previous posts is true. You should use what is comfortable. We work with other high end studios that are all 'Mac' and they seem to suffer from the same "Studio Elves" as everyone else. Sometimes I think all of us just need to vent off sometimes, and other times we are just so full of it (both good and bad) that we must sound off... sounds a little like the music we all do... Huh???

If it fits wear it, if not don't dislike the other guy because it does fit him (or her as the case may be).

The HD3 system we have has been flawless.... several OS issues (very easily fixed). Sometimes the "Elves" get into trouble. We figured out how to get them working for us... We are currently mixing and mastering a live album for a Pacific/Northwest Celtic performer and songwriter, Heather Alexander and she was kind enough to show us that if we would leave a small glass of Wiskey (we managed to find some VO, that's all we had) around, out of the way in the studio the little 'Glitch' problems would stop.

Well, you believe what you want, but after the Wiskey was put out, not only did the little problems stop but ALL editing from that point on was flawless, seamless, and ALWAYS ended in an even number. Anyway, it makes for a fun session, better than 'studiojimi' who has to keep a loaded gun on the console for his naughty "Studio Elves".

Bottom line, like the music, do what feels good, and work hard on the rest. I have noticed that it seems that the larger facilities have choosen the PC environment. In all fairness too, we here at Phantom have everything as DigiDesign has called for... Their choice of PC - IBM 6850 with all stuff complied with. We have ventured out on our own with peripherals and such and all is great there but that is another e-mail

Hope you find this of interest. All have a great Holiday Season.

[img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[Doc Adams]

Oh, Yea, I forgot.

Nikki-k,

On the "Ice" thing, sounds like fun... Let me know when and where and I'll meet you.

This one I gotta seee.... and do!!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ensoniqdap]

I appreciate all the input on this link, but I think my points have gotten lost.

1) I know I will have to buy a new computer.
2) I am comfortable on Mac and very comfortable on PC, and
3) I have not made a decision either way, PC or Mac

Just lookin for one of thos evaluations of the particular systems themselves for the purpose of music.

Thanks

David

[nikki-k]

Hi! Well, your first post was one of inquiry, but your second was one that pretty much damned PC's, and praised Mac's. You say you have built Wintel machines for a few years, but have reservations about the OS (windows). If you are building them currently, the OS in question would be Xp or 2000. Both are very stable. Anyone with patience and decent knowledge should have no problem assembling the proper parts to create a very stable Win XP computer.
I myself have built AMD and Intel based computers, running all flavors of Windows through the years. With a little time spent researching current hardware, one can find those pieces which are suspect; case in point, the original VIA chipsets. Those were a headache. How to avoid a similar situation? Let the current batch of technology "simmer" a few months before jumping on. I did that with the priginal VIA sets, and avoided that trap. Avoided the Win 95 trap the same way.
I have 6 PC's in my home currently. Some AMD, some Intel. The job each performs dictates the components. For Pro Tools, the information on Win XP computers from users was (and is) a bit thin. If you want in on the Pro Tools world, and are comfortable on a Mac, go for it! By all means- solid platform. I sold my Mac because I did not want to learn OS9, only to have to learn OS-X shortly thereafter. Also, I do not care for the elitist (sp?) attitude some Mac-ers have. So, to successfully run PT on a Win XP machine, and be happy and proud of it, is a task I would rather undertake than learning a new OS. I started on FORTRAN, did Basic, BasicII, editor-assembler, Pascal, and a few others. DOS was even fun (I do miss it!). And recently I learned a bit of Linux (hint of Unix, and takes me back to the "gui-less" command-line days [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] )for running 3 gaming servers.
Anyone who asks me: If you are comfortable on a Mac, and do not mind the way Apple handles it's hardware and software upgrades, it is solid.
If you are comfortable on PC's, and really know your stuff (hardware and OS-wise), go PC. To me it is like PC is english (my "native" language), and Mac is French. Beautiful language, but... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] ...lol... Linux, DOS, Basic, etc are like "slang" to me, with a little spanish thrown in here and there- hehehe.
There is less support outside of Digidesign for PT on Win XP...for now. As more people realise that a UAD card and Cubase really doesn't have the power of an HD system, and once PT6 hits, more Win XP PT'ers will come about. More user-to-user support and such would also help this. I would love to build a website for PT on Win XP, targeting TDM systems primarily, tho I do use an MBox on Win XP for scratch tracks.
If anyone wants some help off-DUC via email, feel free! Selecting parts to build a system is not difficult, and if you are not comfy DIY, Dell and IBM build pre-approved-by-Digi systems. Sorry for another lengthy diatribe. Just a little passionate with my new found smile from my Win XP based PT HD3 system [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] nikki [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[fantasongsmusic]

I agree that you should use the system you are more comfortable with. It's a shame a simple question could provoke a Mac vs PC war. I use both. But I must disagree with the person who mentioned that when his brother goes to get a cup of coffe, he comes back and his Mac has crashed. Off hand I'd have to say that there is probably an extension conflict of some sort. I've been using PT/LE for a few years with 2 SCII cards AND SSC AND a good old copy of Opcode Vision locked to PT through IAC and my system never goes down. Try running your system a little leaner in the extensions area. Turn off what you don't need, allocate more memory to PT and I think you'll be just fine. Windows is a good system but in my experience I feel it just doesn't work as smoothly with audio as the Mac does. So there's my 2 cents.