Analog patchbay used as a split to Monitors & FOH

[br&n]

The title should explain what my question is.

We have an old split that has problems. I would like to bypass the split and use analog patchbays to feed the Monitor stage rack and the FOH stage rack.

Signal path would be as follows:

Stage input -> analog patchbay -> both Mon & FOH stage racks

Has anyone tried this before? Would you advise against it?

I'm listening.

[Kenmillerjr]

As long as it is wired properly, I do not see it as being a problem.

[Third Eye Studios]

Originally Posted by br&n

The title should explain what my question is.

We have an old split that has problems. I would like to bypass the split and use analog patchbays to feed the Monitor stage rack and the FOH stage rack.

Signal path would be as follows:

Stage input -> analog patchbay -> both Mon & FOH stage racks

Has anyone tried this before? Would you advise against it?

I'm listening.

What kind of patchbay? XLR?

[noclevername]

I can see a problem that I would be interested to hear from those who know more than me.
One of the purposes of a split is to isolate phantom power from the console supplying the power so that it doesn't damage the other console. On the same note, it would absorb and not allow phantom from the isolated console to send and not damage the other console. I know there are certain consoles which are perfectly fine taking a channel input which has phantom applied from another source, just not sure if Venue is one of them.
Like I said, I am sure those who know more than me would have much to say about this and it will be interesting to hear other opinions.

[br&n]

The patchbays are TRS.

My thoughts on the phantom power is that each stage rack would receive it from one of the consoles. Now with the system this way only one console would supply phantom. Kinda counting on this working this way. Very similar to the Digico consoles. Master and slave. Im not sure what would happen if both sent phantom to a single channel.

Anyone else have any ideas on this? Im listening.

[albee1952]

I would use a snake with a passive splitter(no transformers) and turn phantom power OFF on one of the consoles. You may still want/need ground lifts on one side of the split(pin 1 disconnect) but this must be done on the side to the console that DOES NOT provide phantom power(lifting pin 1 will defeat phantom from that desk). A patch bay by itself does not accomplish splitting anyway.

[br&n]

Originally Posted by albee1952

I would use a snake with a passive splitter(no transformers) and turn phantom power OFF on one of the consoles. You may still want/need ground lifts on one side of the split(pin 1 disconnect) but this must be done on the side to the console that DOES NOT provide phantom power(lifting pin 1 will defeat phantom from that desk). A patch bay by itself does not accomplish splitting anyway.

I know a patchbay does not accomplish splitting but if you wire it with two outputs per single input I believe it will do the same thing as a Y cable. The reason for the patchbay is we will have inputs in multiple zones on stage, more onstage inputs than stage rack inputs. This will give us the ability to place items anywhere on stage and patch them in any of the stage rack inputs.

[Sidhu]

Also, with TRS be sure to avtivate 48v only AFTER the patching is done. While plugging in a TRS; the tip, ring and sleeve will all have a moments contact with phantom.

Potential mic hazard.

[Third Eye Studios]

Originally Posted by br&n

The patchbays are TRS.

My thoughts on the phantom power is that each stage rack would receive it from one of the consoles. Now with the system this way only one console would supply phantom. Kinda counting on this working this way. Very similar to the Digico consoles. Master and slave. Im not sure what would happen if both sent phantom to a single channel.

Anyone else have any ideas on this? Im listening.

Like Sidhu says, one of the big problems with TRS patchbays and using phantom power is when you plug in the TRS cable, it can short tip and ring (pins 2 and 3). This is a bad thing to do with phantom power engaged, and can potentially damage the console or microphone. If you use a patchbay with phantom power, it's best to use a XLR patchbay or TT patchbay.

Really IMO, you should use a splitter. Passive is ok, transformer is better. The patchbay is just another place for something to go wrong. Troubleshooting in live sound can be hard enough and I don't see any reason to make it worse with a patchbay, especially with software patching on digital consoles.

[Live Sound Audio]

I inadvertently kept messing up Millenia Media HV3 preamps using a TRS patchbay and phantom..... It's bad.