Is that 'dipping'? (sidechain C/L ducking for VO)

[Arno Peeters]

I'm working on a 13-part animation-series with voiceover ('The Storyteller') and a couple of characters. In some parts with a lot of background action (i.e historical battle with canons and such) I find myself riding the gains for the VO louder and louder to cut it through the mix, and sometimes even lowering some background-tracks isn't enough. 'Tried lowering some mids and highs to 'carve out' some space, but it's (plain put) a lotta work.

This makes me think: it's not one of my favourite solutions, but could I use a mild sidechain CL to make the background move along dynamically? And what CL can do this the most elegant way? I have Waves, Massey, Elemental... (and of course Digi and BF Free)

And just a silly question: I saw the word 'dipped' in another post... Is that the same thing as ducking?
Or am I messing with words here?!

[minister]

the solution could be 'arrangement'. what BKD's are playing? what are there elements? are those elements in the same vocal frequency? ...you may need to thin it out at the time characters are talking. the brain can only take in so much. so the BKD can be full around the Dialogue and thin out briefy during the talking. you'd be surprised how well it can work.

cutting the VOX frequencies can work too.

'dipping' the BKD slightly on the line also works.

'sidechaining' can also work but it is often very tricky to get the right attack and release times so that you don't get obvious automatic ducking as a voice kicks in ... for me, this is usually the 'quick i don't have time' fix and never quite sounds natural.

by 'dipping' people are talking about fader moves. so, to print an 'undipped' stem or mix means to have the fader at unity so that the production person down the line can control fader based on those needs. like for foreign release.

...who said Audio Post would not be a lotta work?

[Aquarius]

Hi Minister,

Sorry to interfere in this topic but I find myself sometimes struggling also to get everything in place !
For you, wich freqs are the most important for vocals ?
Which freqs would you cut on the bkg tracks ?
I know those are program dependant but ...

Also I have another Q for you :

When I receice a doc to mix, I usually get 2 audio tracks (1 on a lav, the other on a cam, sometimes 1 on a boom), like everybody else
My personal method (I work alone all the time) is to select the best signal, generally the lav and turning down the other ones.
Would you suggest adding another mic to get some "air" ?
How do you proceed most of the time ?

Cheers,
A

[diegogat]

Hi,
I mix docs as well as features. In my experience, mixing mikes is a lot more work than using just one. But sometimes is a good choice. Your ears will say.
What I do is not to try to get nice sound on each but nice parts of the spectrum form each. i.e. LOWs from lav and HIs from boom.. in your case reverb from camera mike. Mixture is what makes them good.
But be vary carefull with phase correlation. Different distances from source in each mike make some awfull effects only when playing together. Also plugin delay will bother if not using delay compensation. And when everything's in phase, camera or subject suddenly move away and phase goes again...

[minister]

hi aquarius!

... I find myself sometimes struggling also to get everything in place !

welcome to the world, son.

For you, wich freqs are the most important for vocals ?
Which freqs would you cut on the bkg tracks ?

cutting freqs on a BKD can work, but you have to be careful that it doesn't sound unnatural (unless that is what you want) ... though the voice contains a lot of frequecnies (as you know), the intelligibility somes from the mid to upper-mids. start there.

When I receice a doc to mix, I usually get 2 audio tracks (1 on a lav, the other on a cam, sometimes 1 on a boom), like everybody else
My personal method (I work alone all the time) is to select the best signal, generally the lav and turning down the other ones.
Would you suggest adding another mic to get some "air" ?
How do you proceed most of the time ?

again, as you know, you select the best sounding mic for the situation. i tend to like the boom better -- soujnds more open and natural to me. usually they have a smoother response. too often the Lav is picking up chest resonance and the like, and can be mid-rangy in an unflattering way. however, i have be known to use the lav when it sounded better...often times in noisy or reverberant environments. sometimes you get a lousy boom, and a great sounding lav.

as diegagoat says, you can mix them, but it can be tough. phase can become an issue. somtimes they don't complement. i rarely do this.

if i want 'air' i have a nice expensive HVAC that i installed. .... uhm, rather, i use EQ. maybe a shelf. maybe a wide Q, like .05, with a gentle lift.

i am sure others will chime in with their methods...

ciao,

[Aquarius]

Hi Minister,

As always, you are very kind to take the time to read and answer one of my post : thank you !
That's reassuring to know someone's using alike methods to get the job done ....
You see I built my studio from the ground up, moving years ago from music to Post and I have set my own rules...
I never had the opportunity to attend a session with such great mixers so I sometimes feel "anxious" about my methods !
Aniway, it's always a pleasure to read you.
Best,
A

[minister]

As always, you are very kind to take the time to read and answer one of my post : thank you !

well, that's what we're here for.

That's reassuring to know someone's using alike methods to get the job done ....

same here.

You see I built my studio from the ground up, moving years ago from music to Post and I have set my own rules...

same here.

I never had the opportunity to attend a session with such great mixers so I sometimes feel "anxious" about my methods !

same here.

Aniway, it's always a pleasure to read you.

same here

Best, A

same here.