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#1
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ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??
Does anyone else feel that Protools (as well as other DAWs) on OSX has been kind of one step forward and three steps back?
I really have been missing the days of OS9 lately. Yes, I love many many things about OSX. But Ive just about had it with how it has slowed down and hindered my work flow. Overall sluggishness of OSX, even on a Dual 2.0 G5. Delays when opening windows, plugins and spinning beach balls. I have long since forgotten what it was like to run on a snappy OS9 Mix Plus setup. It seems like for the simplest, most basic tasks, my G5 is thinking, thinking away, really hard. Sorting thru thousands upon thousands of files just to open my plugin menu or my Bookmarks in Safari. Not a SINGLE reliable softsynth or softsampler. Unusable latency issues with most virtual instruments. Man, Id take samplecell any day now, at this point. Graphic intensive apps and OS that eat up precious CPU cycles just so my mom can have a pretty looking desktop and windows genie effecting and wooshing all over. Buggy after buggy version of Protools, Which I really think is more Apples fault and Digi trying their best to keep up with Apple updates and trying to work around the cumbersome code of UNIX. The list goes on. Again, sure, I love not having to restart after a crash, love true multi-threaded operation, and love the IDEA behind OSX. But, man, I am hating the performace hit Im taking. It seems with every update of Apple OS, Protools, and every new potentially cool virtual instrument I try, I feel like Im on my old Mac Quadra testing out betas. Who would have thought that the speed of my G5 in 2005 feels pretty much like OS8, yes 8, on my old Quadra. Its baffling! Is this just in the Protools world or do the Logic nerds have the same issues? I wish I could just be happy with the pros and cons of OS9 vs OSX, but I really just wish that as we are moving into the future of DAW based recording, I could feel like we were moving forward, and not backwards.. But I dont see it happening. MT
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PT|HD4 Accel PCIx w Magma Chassis & 192 I/O PT HD 9.0.5 - Mac Pro 8-Core 2.4Ghz Westmere 10.6.8 PT|HD 9.0.5 - MacMini Core-Duo, 10.6.8 - ProFire 2626 •••DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE•••
•Use & Trust ø Cancellation!• |
#2
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Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??
Yes it slows down (I´m on a G4 933) but - knock on wood - 10th of april and I will have a 1 year crashfree PT on OSX.
That´s more than I ever had with OS9. Cheers Wolfgang
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www.srs-mastering.de Mac Pro 6.1-8core, OS 12.6, PT2023, HDX2, Sonnet Echo Express III-R, Madi Interface. |
#3
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Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??
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Protools went from a simple tape recorder replacement for me that I wouldnt trust with much else (Pre-Mix Plus days), to an AMAZING virtual studio (with OS9 and Unity, and S.Cell, plugins, Masterlist CD, Logic Audio running in bgrnd reliably, solid MIDI, etc, etc) back to, um, a simple tape recorder replacement with no frills. Here I am now, and I cant even be sure that my MIDI will play back in time or that Ill even be able to EDIT or TRIM a midi note without some truly laughable happenings! MT
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PT|HD4 Accel PCIx w Magma Chassis & 192 I/O PT HD 9.0.5 - Mac Pro 8-Core 2.4Ghz Westmere 10.6.8 PT|HD 9.0.5 - MacMini Core-Duo, 10.6.8 - ProFire 2626 •••DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE•••
•Use & Trust ø Cancellation!• |
#4
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Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??
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...for system configuration info see my profile (Click on member name) |
#5
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Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??
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Ill take a crash a day just to be able to edit or delete a damn midi note reliably! MT p.s. Remember 10k rpm Glyph SCSI Hotswap drives? Before total acceptance of FW drives did away with speedy zoom in/outs and snappy editing? Nothing like hearing my FW churn as I wait for it to slowly seek out the audio files for a re-draw at every zoom level! fun fun!
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PT|HD4 Accel PCIx w Magma Chassis & 192 I/O PT HD 9.0.5 - Mac Pro 8-Core 2.4Ghz Westmere 10.6.8 PT|HD 9.0.5 - MacMini Core-Duo, 10.6.8 - ProFire 2626 •••DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE•••
•Use & Trust ø Cancellation!• |
#6
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Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??
well we shouldn't be suprised to hear from this corner of da werld when it comes to complaining about OSX/PT6.x. We have gone from set it and forget it to "was that a bug that was listed or is that a new bug I need to delete some wierd file to fix" "guess I better run a cold cock tale analysis"
Reliability in midi has been lost for a few Logic 4.x updates. Stability is only available on PT now with a PC. Digi is not even boasting about all the fixes that will happen with PT7. Another bad omen. Digi also chimes in when they know there is a fix for someone....kinda quiet around here I must say... Don't even start talking about softsynths. They are crashy. That's the state of the union. Does a Texan run this company?
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If you don't like laughing at yourself, I will be happy to do it for you. Da-nick-str = Nick Dellos |
#7
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SCSI?
>p.s. Remember 10k rpm Glyph SCSI Hotswap drives? Before total acceptance of FW drives did away with >speedy zoom in/outs and snappy editing? Nothing like hearing my FW churn as I wait for it to slowly >seek out the audio files for a re-draw at every zoom level! fun fun!
Does U160 or U320 SCSI not work well with OS-X? I was thinking of getting a new HBA to replace my Ultra Wide one, since I have a variety of 10K RPM drives. |
#8
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Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??
I think my post in the Sampletank 2 thread is further reinforcement of these issues.
"This thread just highlights the problem that we all have since Digi left us in the lurch in OSX. From my recollection after they abandoned the basic but oh so reliable and stable Samplecell they offered us Samplecell as a direct "replaacement".Ignoring the fact that SC had 32 inputs directly into the TDM environment and ST has only 2, Sampletank is a boy on a man's errand as a professional tool and highlights Avid's seeming disinterest in the music creation business and its focus on film and TV post and digital tape-ecorder replacement. in my experience ST is VERY unstable and a toy. On paper Kontakt is the only soft sampler that plays most formats without doing a complete conversion but I have found most NI instruments to be relatively unstable as RTAS plugs even tho I'm running 4.5 meg ram on a dual 2 gig G5. Elektrik piano is very fragile even tho it sounds great when running. We Logic users had until recently the option of running EXS24 in PT but this has, since Logic Pro, been denied us with the dropping of the HTDM Enabler. I personally use MachFive as my TDM softsampler but to use other formats you must use the inelegant convertor and use an ilok. Again it is stereo only even if you have 8 sounds loaded. The only professional option is to run a PC ;-( with giga studio. It totally misses the elegant simplicity of SC but at least IT WORKS. Thanks Digidesign for your sensitive understanding of your music users. " |
#9
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Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??
Well, one thing: I'm not missing OS 9 in any way shape or form. There are a few annoyances in the OS X system, occasional spinning beach balls, or SWOD, the spinning wheel of death, when opening plugins, crashes when a track track is record enabled/plugin (still with the cs8 update) but the overall performance is great compared to OS X. To be able to bounce a recording and work in the background, no restart after a crash, background processing, file managment and so on.
So no, I do not feel we're going backwards at all. |
#10
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Re: ProTools with OSX-- Are we going backwards??
mt everest,
have you considered you might have a problem with your system ? something might not be setup right? a dual G5 can process tremendous amounts of data. clicking on files in the finder should not take that long... even all those "fancy graphics" you talk about... should not stress your g5 (or video card at all). you can even try thousands of colors in osX too if that floats your boat. i think you also mentioned "Glyph 10k SCSI drives" as well. big whoop. you do realize that you can get 10k S-ATA drives for your power mac g5 ? oh yeah. and its a fraction of the cost of that "professional" glyph drive. i use OSX 10.3.8 with PT 6.4 on a dual G4. i havent rebooted in 12 days. this is fairly common. and yes, i FLY around just as fast (if not faster) than os9. i also use it for logic (at the same time as protools), web server, email, dvd-creation. osX is progress. 100% progress. but, have you considered that the source code for PT is still the same code base from the beginning ? do you think they "re-wrote" the code when osX came out ? of course not. its written in "carbon" which is a nice way of saying "its written for os9 and we made it work for osX". there are no optimizations for osX. nothing. i think you should inspect your system or get a faster hard drive. |
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