Upgrading from a PT10 TDM2 192io

[Qwertypo]

Can I salvage the 192io with a used HD Native thunderbolt?


Or what would be my best options. Would like to retire my cheesegrater.



Thanks for any advice.

[Darryl Ramm]

Yes, but why have the tail wag the dog?

I personally would be getting off DigiLink and onto a modern high quality USB or Thunderbolt interface.

You can also consider if you want/need to stay on HD/Ultimate.

Not clear what IO you actually need, but I would personally be looking at Avid/DAD MTRX Studio with Thunderbolt 3 and RME USB interfaces.

[Qwertypo]

Cost. The new mtrx stuff looks great, but If I can make a small upgrade cost wise and it will work, I don't necessarily see the need to buy a new IO.


Currently using AES 16 Channels with the 192 IO, i could use lightpipe if I had to, that would limit me to 8 channels into my current console. I dont need any analog IO from the box.

I could possibly just use a RME ADAT box? What i am missing without and HDX card? If I just have the IO, its all on the CPU... but I am not tracking live, just re-recording and editing.


Without the support for Digilink, I think Studio could be adequate. But multiple video tracks is something I use on occasion here, to match up editorial changes, and I cant find details on 'advanced audio post toolset' to know if that would be useful.


But I see used HD Native for $500-700. So if that would get me going at $99/month, then why spend $6000+ to get to use $30/month software?

[TOM@METRO]

One of my older rigs is exactly what you're talking about. An old HD Native with a 192 I/O. I have yet to have a client notice any difference in project sonic quality between that and my HDX rig. Actually that kinda' bugs me, but it is what it is.

Please don't shoot the messenger. :)

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Qwertypo

Cost. The new mtrx stuff looks great, but If I can make a small upgrade cost wise and it will work, I don't necessarily see the need to buy a new IO.

Currently using AES 16 Channels with the 192 IO, i could use lightpipe if I had to, that would limit me to 8 channels into my current console. I dont need any analog IO from the box.

I could possibly just use a RME ADAT box? What i am missing without and HDX card? If I just have the IO, its all on the CPU... but I am not tracking live, just re-recording and editing.

Without the support for Digilink, I think Studio could be adequate. But multiple video tracks is something I use on occasion here, to match up editorial changes, and I cant find details on 'advanced audio post toolset' to know if that would be useful.

But I see used HD Native for $500-700. So if that would get me going at $99/month, then why spend $6000+ to get to use $30/month software?

If you are not tracking/monitoring though Pro Tools and DSP plugins then there is really zero point to HDX... except the ability to add lots of DigiLink I/O or (as with DigiLink and HD Native) use a Sync HD box. If you don't need that you can go native and just run at a large I/O buffer.

If you need multiple video tracks then you need Ultimate, so not a question.

Why MTRX or MTRX studio... many folks have gone there because of Atmos and needs for lots of (manageable via DADman) I/O. Some for Dante as well. It's newer, better conversion (which you might not want since you are digital), CoreAudio/ASIO drivers are from DAD and therefore I expect are very well done and will be well supported.

The downside to all DigiLink is just the support problems and ultimately that it will go away, although the Thunderbolt HD Native box seems to have less problems than others. HD Native is dead/dying and I personally would just avoid it. End of support date for HD Native Thunderbolt is 2027, but it's fuzzy what any of these dates mean in the first place.

And sure you could use a RME "Digiface USB" ADAT box. Just straight ADAT/SMUX in and out to USB. I have one, find it handy for quick setups and testing stuff although it's annoying it does not have Word Clock. (Its MADI sister product the MADIface USB is also very handy and it has WC support if you give up the copper coax MADI... wish it had separate WC). I think I picked up the Digiface USB used for ~$400 a few years ago.

I also have digital I/O sitting off RME boxes, RME FireFace UFX+ interface then MADI to older RME adapter boxes... RME ADI-648 and ADI-192 to get to ADAT, AES/EBU and S/PDIF.

[JFreak]

You need Ultimate anyway, if DigiLink is being used... HDN maxes at 64 i/o, which is enough for most applications. And the newer HDN/HDX use new smaller connector so adapters are needed.

But to the original question, is it working? Yes.

[Qwertypo]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

The downside to all DigiLink is just the support problems and ultimately that it will go away, although the Thunderbolt HD Native box seems to have less problems than others. HD Native is dead/dying and I personally would just avoid it. End of support date for HD Native Thunderbolt is 2027, but it's fuzzy what any of these dates mean in the first place.

Ok, thank you that is something I need to consider, but I do feel if I can get another 5 years (of software updates) from a small investment that might be worth it to me. My current system is actually fine, I just hate dealing with the old OS and multiple systems to transfer files around and such.



It looks like I need an adapter for the HD Native box to connect to my existing digilink cable, is that correct?


Is the AJA the best way to get video output? Currently using a Canopus, and a 3rd display routed to my monitor. Or is a 3rd desktop what most people are doing.

[Qwertypo]

What recommendations would you have for IO devices that would allow my to use Pro Tools STUDIO, but give me 8 Channels of AES or TDIF? I am seeing here I am fighting to keep using the 192 IO, but maybe I should not.



Currently my spare computer I plan to start with is a M1 Mini, but I realize it might be under powered and I will need to purchase a Mac Studio. It does seem supported so I figured I would give it a shot.



I have maxed out my displays with the M1 Mini, using dual HDMI QHD monitors, but I also have a projector I need to feed for video monitoring.



Option 1:


HD Native Thunderbolt IO - Digilinked to my 192 IO
AJA IO 4k to projector
Protools Ultimate


<$900 for used gear + Subscription





Option 2:
New IO with 8 min, but hopefully 16 IO in TDIF and/or AES (my console has both)
AJA IO 4k to projector
Possibly only Protools Studio



I know google exists, but googling IO recommendations for protools leads to the obvious MTRX products or very limited 2 channel devices, so I appreciate steering me in the right direction.


Am I crazy hoping to use the M1 Mini? I do max out my TDM2 at the moment but since I came from a Protools 5 system years ago, I am very used to stacking down to use groups and stem mixes to accomplish my goals... but having six 5.1 stems is a lot of tracks in themselves.


Seperate question I have yet to ask. Plug-ins, I do have some old sessions I may need to return to as they are expecting future projects a year out... Will any of my licenses I currently own give me access to the AAX version, or do most settings translate over if I pay to get the latest version? I dont have many, but Waves, TL Space and some others off the top of my head.

[JFreak]

M1 Mini is way capable of whatever you did with your TDM system. I have one connected to Apogee Symphony mkII and horsepower is the last thing you will be lacking.

[Qwertypo]

Thats awesome to hear. I appreciate the insight.



Have you tried one paired with an AJA for video out? I was worried the Mini has limited Thunderbolt IO.