Master Meter clips

[Siegfried Meier]

Has anyone noticed that sometimes the main master meter 1-2 will show clipping, even though the level is nowhere near? For instance, I've got the Massey limiter on the 2 mix, and as a test, I set the output level to -30 dB. There will still be random spikes that go into the red, but when bouncing or recording the output, the level is nowhere near that and there are no clips. Seems to be just a visual bug. Anyone else?

Edit: Perhaps I'm not fully understanding the signal flow here. Plugs on the master are always post fader. It seems that the clip is showing that something is hitting the master too hard before the plugs, regardless of where a limiter plugin is set in level - I believe this is a preferred behavior, so you know that something is clipping. I simply set the master fader 2dB lower, readjusted the master plugs and all seems to be well. Am I correct here?

Thanks!
Sig

[crizdee]

Has anyone noticed that sometimes the main master meter 1-2 will show clipping, even though the level is nowhere near? For instance, I've got the Massey limiter on the 2 mix, and as a test, I set the output level to -30 dB. There will still be random spikes that go into the red, but when bouncing or recording the output, the level is nowhere near that and there are no clips. Seems to be just a visual bug. Anyone else?

Edit: Perhaps I'm not fully understanding the signal flow here. Plugs on the master are always post fader. It seems that the clip is showing that something is hitting the master too hard before the plugs, regardless of where a limiter plugin is set in level - I believe this is a preferred behavior, so you know that something is clipping. I simply set the master fader 2dB lower, readjusted the master plugs and all seems to be well. Am I correct here?

Thanks!
Sig

Hi,

You set the massey limiter to -30 db? you mean -0.3 dbfs right?

You shouldn't be getting any clipping on the master when you have a limiter with the output ceiling set to -0.3 db. Is your master fader set exactly to -0 dbfs?

Try another limiter, maybe the massey isn't setting its output levels right!

Occasional peaking can differ between plugins and the pro tools master fader! it just depends on how many "over samples" have been set before clipping light is illuminated. some plugins will allow several minor overs before illuminating the clip light.
We are talking a miniscule amount of level here.

Chris

[Siegfried Meier]

No, I mean the output level has been set to -30dbfs, meaning the level is very low. The master meter will still show clipping at the exact same spot each time in the song, which to me, indicates that the meter shows that it is severely clipping before it even hits the plugins. If I bring my master fader down now from 0dbfs to -2dbfs, the clipping does not occur. Of course, this means that I need to readjust plugins because, again, the plugs are only post fader on the master (don't think this can be changed). This happens with any limiter I've tried, which leads me to believe that the behavior is something that is normal, and serves as a useful indicator. Perhaps this was a new feature some time ago that I missed?

Thanks,
Sig

[Stylin' Audio]

Are you overloading the master bus or limiter input? I think the plugs on the master are post fader as opposed to pre on audio and aux channels. That would explain why a master fader move drops the light. Try hitting the master a bit lighter, there is certainly no benefit to clubbing it like a baby seal (quite the opposite), then use the limiter output to get you to the stratosphere if that is your vibe.

[Siegfried Meier]

Ya, it's not that I'm clubbing the mix bus, which is why I was curious about the behaviour - it's just a few loud hits in the song that are making it happen. I only ask because pre 7.0 I had never seen this before, so I wondered if it was indeed a feature. I'll check in the manual and see if I can find anything.

Thanks,
Sig

[JFreak]

it's just a few loud hits in the song that are making it happen.

Yep. Those few loud hits OVERLOAD the master output. Try lowering what comes in and then boost it back with the master fader or limiter plug. Sometimes it's harder to see what comes IN than out so watch the INPUT and you'll have no trouble.

No reason to hit the red at any situation.

Only lift volume at the very end and even then try not go over -3dBFS if you think that you mixes will be listened to with 10 dollar CD players. They're still not going to D/A the last bit (from 0 to -6dbFS) properly so you'll get more out of your mix if you don't try to hit 0dBFS.

[crizdee]

Ya, it's not that I'm clubbing the mix bus, which is why I was curious about the behaviour - it's just a few loud hits in the song that are making it happen. I only ask because pre 7.0 I had never seen this before, so I wondered if it was indeed a feature. I'll check in the manual and see if I can find anything.

Thanks,
Sig

Are you definitely in "post" fader metering?

I have never seen my master fader clip before a channel or aux thats feeding it! providing the channel or aux is not above -0dbfs

Chris

[Siegfried Meier]

Pre/post metering, I do believe, is only for individual channels and not for the master faders. I'd have to confirm this, but I'm pretty positive. It would be nice to see a complete signal flow chart, like a console, for all of Pro Tools. That way things like this would be easy to check out.

Sig