Delay Compensation Limit woes

[alexthemusicbloke]

Hi Avid/userbase,

2021.6 is great - finally delay compensation on side chains, I've been wanting/needing this for such a long time. However, for me it's exacerbated an already quite frustrating issue I encounter with 'Tools on virtually every mix I work on.

The delay compensation limit (when the indicators turn red) is a non-stop issue for me. The only work around is significant freezing/committing of tracks/plugin chains. It's a major frustration both to workflow and takes up a considerable amount of time each and every time I need to freeze/unfreeze.

It doesn't take much to hit the limit. UAD plugins on drum individuals, some HW inserts on parallel busses, a main drum bus with some Acustica and maybe a bit of Spiff or Soothe2 and bang... you're in the red. Same with any kind of linear phase EQ.

Sometimes there literally isn't a workaround option if you have things grouped together, and IMO this is a major issue which can really hold back the quality of my final mix.

Is anyone else encountering this? I don't really understand why there needs to be a ADC limit in this day and age, especially with the way the hybrid engine places significantly less pressure on the available HDX resources.

[Teej]

I also have this problem just with native plugins and I agree with you. Major pain and surely doesn't have to be so limited in 2021?

hell yeah we're a demanding bunch

complete dumb speculation: it's another thing native can do and HDX can't, so they wait awhile and introduce it in a clever way (like Hybrid engine for HDX users with 2021.6) to not piss off the customers that have spent the most.

[guitarman6]

Similar issues here. Surprised I keep running into bussing limitations and constant juggling of ADC in 2022 (PT v2021.12). It’s amazing what these engineers have already achieved for us but I often feel like the people making this stuff don’t stress test the software enough in real life scenarios. There are plenty of guys making hits with the same software so there are obviously workarounds or other ways of doing the same thing; but regardless it feels like by now our creativity and freedom to experiment ITB shouldn’t be limited anymore by software capabilities. I think back to PT’s 4GB RAM limit, which was only finally addressed a few years ago…

[BScout]

Originally Posted by guitarman6

Similar issues here. Surprised I keep running into bussing limitations and constant juggling of ADC in 2022 (PT v2021.12). It’s amazing what these engineers have already achieved for us but I often feel like the people making this stuff don’t stress test the software enough in real life scenarios.

These huge delay comp buffers are happening because plugin developers are using either more processing cycles or longer look ahead buffers in their plugins now. And then users are stacking them. There has to be some limit. If you hit play and hear nothing for 5 secs, would that be ok? Eventually we'll get there.

Originally Posted by guitarman6

I think back to PT’s 4GB RAM limit, which was only finally addressed a few years ago…

This was literally because of how much space a 32bit program can address. It changed when they went 64bit. It wasn't arbitrary.

[Darryl Ramm]

But where are these limits hitting folks today? What plugins?

The few I've seen are folks applying super heavy lookahead limiters/mastering limiters onto tracks. Or say routing out/back in repeatedly on UAD plugins (that also may have large delays), And well there is a way to not have those issues...

[Eric Lambert]

Originally Posted by BScout

There has to be some limit. If you hit play and hear nothing for 5 secs, would that be ok?

It would have to be, unless the DAW can keep those first 5 seconds buffered at all times, but think of the nightmares that would create.

[Eric Lambert]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Or say routing out/back in repeatedly on UAD plugins (that also may have large delays)

Coincidentally, UA just released a native version of (some of) their plugins today. That will help for instances where these round-trips are involved.

[massivekerry]

It would be really handy if there was some kind of (SHORTCUT-ENABLED) command that could make all of a chosen channel's plugins inactive. Particularly the Master, but I actually do all of my master processing on an Aux. Can't tell you how often I have a track come back that I need to play extra/different parts on, and I have to go and deactivate every plugin on my "Master" channel (and sometimes some "Subgroup" Auxes) one-by-one so that I can do no/low-latency tracking... and hope that I remember to re-activate all of the correct Inserts.

[Eric Lambert]

Originally Posted by massivekerry

It would be really handy if there was some kind of (SHORTCUT-ENABLED) command that could make all of a chosen channel's plugins inactive. Particularly the Master, but I actually do all of my master processing on an Aux. Can't tell you how often I have a track come back that I need to play extra/different parts on, and I have to go and deactivate every plugin on my "Master" channel (and sometimes some "Subgroup" Auxes) one-by-one so that I can do no/low-latency tracking... and hope that I remember to re-activate all of the correct Inserts.

There is. I can't remember the shortcut (someone else will) because I don't use it because I tend to go with Control-Command-Click to disable those plugins I don't want and that's a quick and selective process.

[massivekerry]

Originally Posted by Eric Lambert

There is. I can't remember the shortcut (someone else will) because I don't use it because I tend to go with Control-Command-Click to disable those plugins I don't want and that's a quick and selective process.

Yeah, I do that as well, but I'd love if there was an All-Inserts-On-Selected-Track variation. You can Bypass them all, but that won't eliminate the Latency/DelayComp. And if you add Option, it Deactivates that Insert Slot - on all tracks. I've spent a lot of time looking through the manual, shortcuts guide and EuCon config menus looking for this.