losing sound quality by uploading

[sethwudel]

When i upload my song to either sound cloud or reverberation, the sound quality is WAY worse…..i mean, its coming through my [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep]ty laptop speakers instead of my m box headphones, and make its somwheat [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep]tier im sure…..but even when i hear other peoples songs on sound cloud, they dont sound as [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep]ty as mine does…..but my music sounds great through my m box, in pro tools…..so a) is there something i can do in my own mix to make it sound better when i upload it and b) is there any better way to share my songs with people than sound cloud and reverberation? the difference is huge

[jasonthurley]

Hey bro, so calm down and lets go over your prcedure so we all have an idea of what the bleep edy bleep your trying to accomplish and whats happening...

The first place to start is by giving us your system information... Or go to the top of any of these forum pages and a link is there that sais "Help us help you" Instruction are inside to post the information needed to assist you in a professional manner. now that said....

1st thing is to use your MBox as the playback for online things or non-pro tools related audio....I assume you are on Windows since it says you have an asus computer... There is a Pro Tools program that you can open to use your interface (MBOx) with. It is called Core Audio Manager and should be somewhere in your Avid folder... you can drop it to the desktop and pin it to your dock, when you want to listen to anything on your computer and use your Avid hardware (or MBox) you MUST CLOSE PRO TOOLS and then open this program and all audio in your computer card will be sent to the hardware.

For MAC it is as simple of going into the Control Panel>Sound> then select the MBox and it will switch to playback through the MBox.

Now as for uploaded... what are you uploading?? A .wav? a .MP3? How are you "bouncing" or making the final version (In Pro Tools? Using the Pro Tools MP3 bounce option??)...

Soundcloud is pretty amazing as you can upload full sized .wav files (now when streaming the soundcloud player converts to MP3, but you can download the full res file.

Reverbnation only lets you do MP3, but I use an amazing little program that can improve the quality of your MP3. Although RNation has a size limit (8G) per file unless you pay for mega storage per month (then it can be as large as you can make it)

I use Switch (I dont like the Pro Tools MP3 converter, it sounds like one of your bleeps) plus I can select a 320mbps file and by select a check box it lets you use the highest quality MP# possible. You will have to play with the streaming size if 320 is too large (over 8G) for ReverbNation (or pay the mega storage fee of course).

So my final thought on this is that Im not sure what you are monitoring with but not all speakers/rooms will have a true representation of your mix... I usually have a popular mastered track that I can drag into Pro Tools and solo to compare the speakers response to a very well mixed track... That way I can tell if a system is a little muddy or it is lacking sub frequency, etc... I like to use Steely Dan's Green Earings as it is a great mix.. all instruments are isolated in the mix, yet blend nicely, it sounds great on ANY system... then I listen to my mix and can hear IMMEDIATELY what Im lacking or overcompensation on. It will let me know if my FX are too loud and I need to pull it back for a more dry sound (sometimes its great in your studio, then you put it in someones car and it is all muddy or lacking high end, etc... This is a monitor system issue... so just realize that just cause your speakers sound good doesnt mean the mix will sound good on all speakers.

Switch (It is free, you just have to select the free download version-look carefully its on this page under the top right where it says "Get this for free")

http://www.nch.com.au/switch/index.html

And no its not a virus or silly add installing deal... it is simply the audio program... Ive installed it on dozens of computers.

[sethwudel]

thanks ….thats alot of info to take in, but it should help me start…..im actually using a mac now…..so a) i wanna get switch…..and then if i pay more money to soundcloud or reverberation, i can upload bigger files? so, if i improve the quality, my song will be over 8gb? Im going to try to get this switch now….iull let ya know if it makes a difference

[jasonthurley]

Switch works on both Windows and MAC... Soundcloud lets you upload .wav files with a free account so no need to upgrade there... Reverbnation does offer the Mega Song Storage so you can upload larger files but I usually just knock the data rate down when converting to .mp3 (so instead of 320mbps I bring it down to say 240, then convert it and check the file size to ensure its under 8G) so I dont have to pay for the extr storage... If I want to send someone a higher quality file I upload it to soundcloud and let them download it (they get the full sized .wav file)...

You can also give only certain people permission to download it so you can upload a demo track for say a producer to download and listen too and no one else will be able to see or play or download it... It is a nice website... you should read up on the features.

The size of your file depends on the length... so I cant tell you If your particular song or songs are going to be over 8G... Some of mine are way over (like 4-6 minute tracks) and others I can upload at full .MP3 resolution. You will have to convert it in Switch and then look at the file size...

[JFreak]

Yep, the problem here is not Soundcloud or any other company, but YOUR MIXES DON'T TRANSLATE WELL as you noticed yourself. If it sounds different where you mix it and listen to it, then there's something "wrong" in your monitoring. You make bad mixing decisions because your monitoring is not telling you the truth. That is why studios have great monitors and great acoustically treated rooms, to actually hear the truth while you mix.

I would guess the first problem in your setup must be the D/A converter. IF it alters the sound you're monitoring there are no million dollar speakers that can tell you anything but already altered truth. If you're serious about improving your monitoring, this would be first and one of the most crucial points that you should consider. Perhaps a 2nd hand Apogee Mini-DAC which has undoubtedly "great enough" D/A and clock...? Surely it costs what it costs but it's well worth it in improving monitoring.

You said you're using headphones. Didn't say which ones but I think those cannot be very crappy if you use them for monitoring. If they're great, they can be much better than "real" monitors in the same price range. Take Sennheiser HD 650 for example, those can really be used for mixing.

However, you MUST give it some time to get used to your headphones. First of all, monitoring headphones take some 50 hours of use to get them settle. Fresh headphones change their sound a little every hour you use them, so you have a moving target while you mix. Second, it also takes much much more time to get used to actually mixing with headphones due to enhanced separation between left and right. Your mind needs to compensate, and this is a learning process nobody can teach you. As long as you're learning, your mixes won't translate.

Now here are your problems pointed out, assuming you really can mix (you were satisfied with what you heard in your cans, weren't you..?). Up to you what you do about the points mentioned

[Emcha_audio]

Headphones for mixing is never going to be a good thing for multiple reasons.

1- stereo imaging.
2- opened cup of open buds will let all the ambient sound of where you are come through so you will have to boost the volume up to compensate, being so close to the ear will result in ear fatigue a lot faster and possibly damage permanently your ear.
3- Closed cup or closed bud, does not let the air move freely in and out of your ear with the sound waves compression and ear drum movement. Meaning that your ear drum will be compressed in an unatural way and wont be able to move naturally changing dramastically how the frequencies response of your ears gives you.
4- No head phones are able to get as close as good monitors for a flat frequency response.

in this case the hd 650 ain't too bad, but you have to know exactly what you are working with so you can actually compensate for the frequency response of the head phones.

http://www.headphone.com/headphones/...ser-hd-650.php

In this case notice the +5/+6db boost of the bass around the 100hrz that boost gently curve down to 0db when it reaches 1k. Then after 1 k everything is going down by almost -2db up till 3k where it takes a plunge to -6db for the 5k to 6k and then goes back up to -2db for 10 k and then plummets down after 10 k. This means that if you don't know about it, all your mix will sound muddy and boomy. And if you actually know how the headphones act, then there's the probability that you will constantly over compensate the highs and down the lows, which will give you a ear fatiguing, thin mix with close to no lows at all.

What you should do before getting any DA/AD is get some good monitors. Then do your room treatment. The room treatment is the primordial thing here as it will let you mix in a comfortable, natural settings for your ears where they will respond as they should. After that you can get a good DA/AD. Any good DA/Ad should be completely transparent and not change the frequencies of your sound meaning that even if you do the room treatment first, a Good Conversion box will not change anything there, it might improve it in fact.

And no, if your song is getting to be as big as a blueray disk movie once printed and exported or bounced and converted, then you have a problem

[musicman691]

I use headphones for tracking, editing and rough mixing. I do this so I don't annoy those around me trying to do other things. But I don't rely on headphones only for my final mix - for that I go to my monitor speakers. If you don't do that you'll never really know how good or bad your mix is. I'll tweak the mix with eq and compression as needed listening on the monitors and then go back to the cans for a check. It's unbelievable how much cleaner and better the mix has become with this method.

I've gone back and listened to on monitors some mixes I'd done years ago where I used headphones only and wonder why the heck I even let that mix out of the computer to the client. Client didn't complain but if I could do it over for him I would.

But if someone really wants to do headphone only mixing do yourself a favor and get: decent cans and a really good headphone amp/converter setup. That will go a long way to a better sound. Most headphone outs don't have the oomph or clarity for any serious audio work.

[Emcha_audio]

Originally Posted by musicman691

I use headphones for tracking, editing and rough mixing. I do this so I don't annoy those around me trying to do other things. But I don't rely on headphones only for my final mix - for that I go to my monitor speakers. If you don't do that you'll never really know how good or bad your mix is. I'll tweak the mix with eq and compression as needed listening on the monitors and then go back to the cans for a check. It's unbelievable how much cleaner and better the mix has become with this method.

I've gone back and listened to on monitors some mixes I'd done years ago where I used headphones only and wonder why the heck I even let that mix out of the computer to the client. Client didn't complain but if I could do it over for him I would.

But if someone really wants to do headphone only mixing do yourself a favor and get: decent cans and a really good headphone amp/converter setup. That will go a long way to a better sound. Most headphone outs don't have the oomph or clarity for any serious audio work.

True, and to add to that. If you really want to only use cans to do mixes, check the specs or get some that are specked out on the website I linked to. Then place a (or multiple) eq plugs on your master fader (only for the tracking/ mixing process take them out when you are printing or bouncing your tracks) with settings that will compensate for the cans response so it's close to being flat, it will never be really flat but it will get better. Then mix with them. By doing this you are compensating before you are actually starting your mix, and you will not be fooled in trying to compensate for the cans while you are EQing your bass track, for example.

But again, with cans, even if you compensate the frequencies, your stereo imaging will never be the same and that has a lot to do with having good mixes, and how your ear respond to the sound waves pressure in your ears. So best to mix on good monitors then check on cans and on s***box, in the car, the living room hi-fi system, than to try and mix only with one set of tools.

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio

This means that if you don't know about it, all your mix will sound muddy and boomy. And if you actually know how the headphones act, then there's the probability that you will constantly over compensate the highs and down the lows, which will give you a ear fatiguing, thin mix with close to no lows at all.

Actually, it's the other way around. The HD 650's boost low end so if you don't know about it your mix is going to be bass thin. And because of the "silky" top end your mixes are likely be tinny if you don't know about it. Because your mind compensates, as you said. You tend to hear your mixes always just the same and if the monitoring is bass heavy then the mix is just the opposite.

Everything else you posted was fine, but this one you had wrong. Trust me, I have the HD 650's and know how it goes

[JFreak]

Originally Posted by Emcha_audio

If you really want to only use cans to do mixes, check the specs or get some that are specked out on the website I linked to. Then place a (or multiple) eq plugs on your master fader (only for the tracking/ mixing process take them out when you are printing or bouncing your tracks) with settings that will compensate for the cans response so it's close to being flat, it will never be really flat but it will get better. Then mix with them.

That's one opinion, but I tend to disagree. I don't compensate with EQ but instead try to learn how the cans sound and adjust myself accordingly. I don't change cans so often so it's not a big deal. And I have a master 2-track feed to a monitor controller so it's not practical to disable/enable plugins according to which monitors I'm using. But opinions do vary so this one is not neither right or wrong.