Delay Compensation Limit woes

[thin ice]

Originally Posted by LDS

But refinement and creativity don't really coincide with more plugins. It seems that is the biggest difference today, from 10 or 20 years ago. People seem to think they should be collecting plugins like they do baseball cards. It is really just abject consumerism. Literally anyone can do it.

Creativity and comfort zones are entirely about the creative process itself. Particularly with the power of any stock standard DAW, relying on a new plugin is a pretty unimaginative approach to achieving something that sounds different. It has certainly been one of my big realisations, and perhaps is applicable in some kind of systemic way. 20 years ago there were less tools available, so people inherently were less bogged down in them.

Today, people seem to rely on plugins as a replacement to even the most basic audio engineering skills.

What you say is true, if a bit dull. Every plugin purchase feels like a key to the promised land of the perfect mix when you start out.

I have tried to keep my addiction under control, but the occasional purchase or update just gets me excited about work again. It is the same as finding a new piece of guitar gear; you know deep down you're not going to be Steve Via, but it makes you play a bit more often and get better.

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by LDS

Maybe my response was too subtle. It isn't a question of do you use rx plugins... it is a question of why do you use rx plugins.

Because you need to fix problematic audio that you’ve been delivered by a client. Exactly what the tool was invented for.

They revert to low quality settings when used in realtime...

I prefer to use the standalone editor the majority of the time, but this is news to me. Do you have a link that documents this?

and get widely (ab)used because people never learnt proper editing techniques.

What does ‘proper editing’ of audio have to do with using restoration software?

You keep repeating your views on using too many plugins or the latest and greatest but keep ignoring that a few plugins with crazy look ahead can push latency compensation to its limit. A few… not 10, 20, 50.

I feel like I’m going round in circles here.


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[LDS]

Originally Posted by Sardi

Because you need to fix problematic audio that you’ve been delivered by a client. Exactly what the tool was invented for.

But all plugins were invented to be used... that in itself isn't a justification to start filling up plugin slots.

I prefer to use the standalone editor the majority of the time, but this is news to me. Do you have a link that documents this?

You shouldn't need documentation. I quite literally get a warning message when trying to crank rx plugins beyond low quality settings, stating that higher quality settings aren't designed for realtime applications.

What does ‘proper editing’ of audio have to do with using restoration software?

You keep repeating your views on using too many plugins or the latest and greatest but keep ignoring that a few plugins with crazy look ahead can push latency compensation to its limit. A few… not 10, 20, 50.

I feel like I’m going round in circles here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Proper editing has everything to do with audio restoration. If your first reaction to a plosive is to reach for an RX plugin, for example... you've got a problem. Proper editing is the original and also one of the best sounding restorative processes there is. This conversation will go around on circles. Huge chunks of my days are spent dealing with audio of very varying quality. I am very much a power user of RX... yet never manage to breach the ADC limits of Pro Tools. That is some wild use of RX plugins...

[Noemie]

I personally wouldn't mind waiting a few seconds before hearing audio.

If I decide I need it, why would it bother me ? Actually, that would be great and way more flexible.

[climber]

Originally Posted by Sardi

Some of those RX modules incur an insane amount of latency.

is that PT fault?

[albee1952]

There are solutions to consider:
1-With plugins like RX(anything that has a ton of latency), use it as Audiosuite.
2-If you can't let go of real-time processing, maybe its time to look for alternative plugins that have less latency.
3-With some planning, it might be possible to load all high-latency plugins in the same slot. If you can do that, you can make an entire row of plugins inactive with a single command(hold all 3 modifier keys and click a plugin).
4-For lots of plugins on the master track, leave the plugins alone and make the master track inactive(much faster than clicking on several plugins)

[thebeatless]

I'm not a programmer, but I don't understand why there is still a limit on delay compensation in pro tools in 2022. I've been working on some projects in logic, and it's amazing to be able to use RX declick, mouth declick, and breath control in realtime and automate parameters instead of being forced to audiosuite several sections. And... Not just one of them, but all stacked on a single track without issues! At first I felt lost without audisuite, but after getting used to it, it's far superior. Also the ARA version of Spectral repair is so nice!!

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by thebeatless

I'm not a programmer, but I don't understand why there is still a limit on delay compensation in pro tools in 2022. I've been working on some projects in logic, and it's amazing to be able to use RX declick, mouth declick, and breath control in realtime and automate parameters instead of being forced to audiosuite several sections. And... Not just one of them, but all stacked on a single track without issues! At first I felt lost without audisuite, but after getting used to it, it's far superior. Also the ARA version of Spectral repair is so nice!!

The answer is simple and has been repeated on DUC a lot in the past. The hard limit come from HDX/DSP design. If you want to change stuff there it's likely invasive/will take a lot of work. If Avid changed this on native then their native product would be "better" than the flashship HDX product.

[Sardi]

Originally Posted by climber

is that PT fault?

Honest question or being sarcastic?

If the former - no, it’s not PT’s fault. PT has a hard limit on what it will compensate, but it’s the plugin that’s creating the latency.

It’s not a fault per se.


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[asoemo]

I also have this problem with every mix.

Just for comparison, Logic and Studio One do NOT have these limits. Or if they do, I can't find it with my tests. As a test I loaded up various numbers of soothe and UAD plugs in parallel and series in logic. I think I had over 26 in a row on a single track and other amounts on other tracks to keep the system guessing. Logic calculates the delay needed and it's all in sync.

Studio one does the same thing with great success. I mixed an entire song on Studio one the other day and didn't freeze (transform) anything. Even used izotope plugins in real time just to see what it would do. delay compensation worked the entire time with no issues.

Pro Tools falls over and dies before we get into the first 5 plugins that have any real latency. It's a real problem and needs to be addressed by Avid.

Those who are saying it's because of 32 bit application, etc...aren't correct. The issue, as I understand it, is that HDX has a limit to what it can compensate for, and Avid has chosen to keep native with the same limitation. Once again, I don't agree with Avid's choices on this.

For a native rig it's simple math. You need 10 seconds, here is ten seconds. It would be hard to work with that much, but why limit the software? let the user decide on what is too much instead of limiting us by hardware we don't even own?

- Andy