Broadcast Layback Question: Levels?

[sparky3000]

Howdy...

Just wondering if there are any other broadcast mixers here who might have a good feel for this problem...

Basically, I'm following the old rule I was taught of keeping my laybacks around -10 DB to my digibeta. But, I'm
sick and tired of watching my show get crushed by commercials. The level drops are embarrassing.
Should I just up my layback volume to -5 or so? Or.. is this something the local networks are doing to
compensate.

I realize commercials are always louder than program material, but this is out of hand. (Given, I might
be a little bit biased, here.

Just wondering what experiences you all have with this issue. Thanks in advance!

[Mt.Everest]

Howdy...

Just wondering if there are any other broadcast mixers here who might have a good feel for this problem...

Basically, I'm following the old rule I was taught of keeping my laybacks around -10 DB to my digibeta. But, I'm
sick and tired of watching my show get crushed by commercials. The level drops are embarrassing.
Should I just up my layback volume to -5 or so? Or.. is this something the local networks are doing to
compensate.

I realize commercials are always louder than program material, but this is out of hand. (Given, I might
be a little bit biased, here.

Just wondering what experiences you all have with this issue. Thanks in advance!

This is definitely a tough topic. Sorta falls in the same area as the mastering loudness wars for music albums. I try to forget about the DigiBeta levels, and just stick to a visual reference with Dorough Meters where my RMS level hovers around zero and my peaks stay in that ' normal ' peak range area above that. If I can slap an L2 on the mix and still maintain that idea, while increasing my overall loudness a few dB, all is well. I'm not gonna totally squash the mix to compete with commercials, but some mixbus processing does help to get my perceived loudness up several dB while still retaining the integrity of the mix.

MT

[sparky3000]

[QUOTE]

This is definitely a tough topic. Sorta falls in the same area as the mastering loudness wars for music albums. I try to forget about the DigiBeta levels, and just stick to a visual reference with Dorough Meters where my RMS level hovers around zero and my peaks stay in that ' normal ' peak range area above that. If I can slap an L2 on the mix and still maintain that idea, while increasing my overall loudness a few dB, all is well. I'm not gonna totally squash the mix to compete with commercials, but some mixbus processing does help to get my perceived loudness up several dB while still retaining the integrity of the mix.

MT

Good stuff. Yea, I'm familiar with the volume v. perceived volume/mastering issues. I'm just wondering if I'm physically
laying back at a lower level than most people these days.

I run my mix through the L2, as well. Just mostly clipping the VO peaks. But, I may have to start upping it a bit. I Tivo'd my
last show and you literally have to jump to the remote to turn the T.V. down when the commercials hit. It's just too drastic.

When I mix for radio, we're pumping it up around -3 db. Mastering for CD audio will obviously have levels cheating up near -1 DB and some may even go higher. I'm just wondering if the -10 rule in broadcast is going by the wayside.

[GoodBoyPaul]

When you are Mixing for Television, then you will receive "Delivery Requirements" Those requirements dictate what levels your Mix should be. If the requirements say that -10dbf is as hot as you can go, then that is it or your show will be rejected by QC.

Often, the Edited Master that has your final Mix is dubbed to an Air Master, this is done by the Network. How much your Mix is proccessed again by them is unknowm. The result can be over-compression, synch issues and a host of other intangibles that make watching your own show, when it airs painfull.

My suggestion, follow the Delivery Requirements to the letter, avoid rejection, and this will keep your client happy. Do not try to anticipate what the Network does to your Show and compensate for it. Not a good idea.

Paul

[wheresmyfroggy]

If the channel delivery spec tells you to peak no higher than -10 then the adverts are probably no different. They get round this by compressing the buggery out of everything and slamming it into a limiter at the end to push up the perceived loudness and having as tight a mix as possible between VO/Dialogue and Music/FX. Although this may sound great in a 30" commercial spot if you were to try and emulate this in an hour long documentary it would be quite hard to listen to and would ultimately ruin the experience for the viewer (and the channel would prob reject it anyway)


HTH


Tom

[creativesounds]

I mix tv and radio commercials all the time. This is quite a bone of contention for us, the dubbing facility, and the stations. Basically, for television commercials I peak at -8 dBFS. Of course, I also have and Ultramaximizer on the 2 mix to squash the living hell out of the mix.

One important thing to remember is that the stations do play back commercials louder than the shows. So there is only so much you can do to get a "loud" show mix. And each station is different. Quite often I will hear my mixes on one station and they will sound fine, but on another station they might be too low... It's a crap shoot.

Following the specific guidelines for the broadcaster you are delivering your shows to is a good idea.

George Spanos

[JFreak]

Of course, I also have and Ultramaximizer on the 2 mix to squash the living hell out of the mix.

Here's the problem :/

[roberts]

I have no problem with melt on a L3 Multimaximizer.
It thought that's why it's a "Maximizer" LOL

[dr sound]

Sparky,
The program you mix is the filler for the commercials. The networks make their money on the commercials. If they mess them up then the networks have to replay the commercials and make less or no money on the replay. Have you ever listened to a commercial in your mix room where you mix your show? These things are compressed as hell, with it EQ'd to rip your head off. They are typically mixed at around 72 spl. Now play that back in your calibrated room. It doesn't sound pretty. When they mix a commercial they mix 30 seconds in a day. You are probably mixing 30 minutes in a day. I would suggest you contact the network and get their specs. Ask them (in a kind voice) what can you do to make your hard work sound better on their network. Let us know what they say.

[shockwave2501]

Yea I agree, over here we have the dorroughs around 0 and peaks in a reasonable range. Alos lots of different stations ad networks have different specs to meet obviously and we adjust to meet them.