System audio monitoring

[robertszydlo]

Hello,
Please help, it is quite possible I am missing something simple and obvious here :)
When I switched from Cubase/RME to ProTools/Avid interfaces world around ten years ago I faced the problem how to monitor „system audio” for referencing - Apple Music, preview, also the sound from apps like RX. I switched several computers during this time and there was a simple solution I used - I had Cranesong Avocet so I connected the optical spdif from the computer to it - set and forget. When I moved to MTRX Studio I decided to sell Avocet (to use separate DA out for subwoofer to align and tune it using SPQ) and since then I am trying to find a perfect workaround.
1)I use Focusrite D16R Mk2 to connect AES gear to MTRX Studio, so I got optical spdif/AES converter box and hoped for the best. Unfortunately Focusrite (SRC on) is not reclocking the signal the way Avocet did and there are noticeable clicks and pops. Unacceptable.
2) For some crazy reason I thought that getting a good quality AES out instead of optical/converter box would improve things, so I got PUC2 usb/aes card and connected to Focusrite. Even worse, instead of audio with small clicks I am getting audio fragments with pauses , clearly out of sync
3) Tried to use DVS. Finally good audio , but it is not following sample rate. I often switch sample rates (working for many clients) so MTRX is the master ( switches sample rate when I open Pro Tools session) and all the other gear follows. DVS does not, so I go to Dante Controller and switch it manually. Not convenient at all, drives me crazy.
4) Made a work-around channel in PT: Routed system audio to aux input (PT Bridge) and rerouted it to MTRX via digilink and using it as source in MTRX monitor profile. Nice and working but… only when PT is running. Say I want yo use RX or Hofa DDP … need to keep PT running PT in background with my „work-around session setting just to pipe the audio. Not really elegant.

Trying to figure it out and have 2 basic questions:
- Am I missing simple and elegant way to send system audio to MTRX ecosystem inside the box? I tried audiomovers omnibus, loopback etc, always the same problem: no way to route directly to DADman. Still I hope maybe I just can’t see it.
- Maybe I need to buy another magic box. Muxlab 500550? But what ( even if it does 44.1/48/96 as advertised) if I want to work in RX in 88.2 ?
Reclocking unit between PUC-2 and D16R? 3 external hardware boxes just to get system audio going in DADman matrix…
I really enjoy working in PT and using MTRX Studio not looking back, but still missing some obvious flexibility of Cubase/Rme system. It is nice that PT can see core audio sound thru PT Bridge now. Do you think the same feature is possible in DADman someday?. What if we could route system audio directly to DADman? See a 2 channel and a 7.1.4 aux in to DADman in the system audio out list and in Omnibus device list? I very much hope so.
If you something I am missing please let me know, will appreciate it very much!
Thank you!

[uptheoctave]

The MTRX Studio doesn't have a native audio connection unless you buy the Thunderbolt 3 card.
This is a new option card that didn't ship with the unit originally.

https://www.thomann.de/gb/avid_pro_t...nderbolt_3.htm

You have a couple of options here.

1.Buy the Thunderbolt 3 card. Set that to be your Mac native audio card and configure it in Pro Mon as a monitor source.

2. Get a copy of Dante Virtual Soundcard, set that as your native 'Mac Audio' driver, configure it in Pro Mon as a monitor source.

3. Get any other native audio card, set that as you native 'Mac Audio' driver, physically connect it to the MTRX Studio and configure it in Pro Mon as a monitor source.

Dante Virtual Soundcard has a few caveats.
I find it flakey, esp when changing sample rates.

--------------------

Extra info, which might be helpful:

Regardless of which option you go for, you might also want to consider adding Omnibus by Audio Movers.

The MTRX and DAD family devices are very capable but that comes with a level of complexity.
There is an issue around sample rates that can stump people.

Here is the problem:

When using these interfaces something needs to be the clock master.
If that is Digilink then when you change sample rate in Pro Tools (when digilink is the devices being used) the whole system will change sample rate except for the Thunderbolt card.

It is easy to end up with the MTRX Thunderbolt card (or externally connected native interface, of DVS) at a different sample rate to the rest of the system.

If you have your system set to 48kHz (including Thunderbolt), open a session in PT that is 96k, then Digilink will change but native will not and you will stop hearing the audio.

Setting the MTRX to follow the TB card will result in Digilink not being heard in the same scenario, again because there is a sample rate mismatch between Digilink and the native audio device.

Omnibus is a genius piece of software that will do on the fly sample rate conversion, I set my native audio to be Omnibus, which sits between the native audio card (in my case the TB card in the MTRX II) and the rest of the MTRX II and changing sample rate in any native DAW causes a short drop out and then it comes back.

It also allows me to use the MTRX II and Dante mic preamps in Zoom, which never used to work with the stock driver.

Another way around this is to use a native interface that is independent of the MTRX but you will then need to send a stereo pair up to the MTRX over analogue. I didn't want to do that, using Omnibus means I don't have to use analogue channels just to get Mac system audio.

[its2loud]

Why do you need to go digital out of the Mac?

Simply use a cable from the Mac output to the MYRX Studio A/D

[uptheoctave]

Originally Posted by its2loud

Why do you need to go digital out of the Mac?

Simply use a cable from the Mac output to the MYRX Studio A/D

In my case, it chews up 2 channels which are better used for other things.
Also most of the Macs currently being sold, their audio outs are at headphone level, not line level.
Not the end of the world but it is annoying.

[its2loud]

Also most of the Macs currently being sold, their audio outs are at headphone level, not line level.

That’s actually not true.

“The 3.5 mm headphone jack on compatible Mac computers features DC load detection and adaptive voltage output. Your Mac can detect the impedance of the connected device and will adapt its output for low- and high-impedance headphones, as well as for line-level audio devices.”

Also. There’s this,
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...-usb-c-adapter

Cheaper than the TB card.

[uptheoctave]

Originally Posted by its2loud

That’s actually not true.

“The 3.5 mm headphone jack on compatible Mac computers features DC load detection and adaptive voltage output. Your Mac can detect the impedance of the connected device and will adapt its output for low- and high-impedance headphones, as well as for line-level audio devices.”

Yes I know that is what they say- but in my experience (3 machines here, 2021 MBP, 2021 M1 Ultra Studio, 2019 Mac Pro) the performance of the internal audio output is not true line level.
I've had to compensate for low or high level, I forget which- it was a while ago.
I can test it again at some point.

It will also be unbalanced.

[uptheoctave]

Originally Posted by its2loud

Also. There’s this,
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...-usb-c-adapter

Cheaper than the TB card.

That is an option but have you used one?
I havent tried the USBC version but the USBA version had latency exactly the same as DVS, so I returned it.

I use multi outputs over TB (for Native IO) so for me the TB card is the better option.

I agree that if it is just system sounds then a 2 channel *something* is better value.

[its2loud]

Unbalanced is fine unless the Mac is 800ft from the MTRX.

Line level out of my Mac Studio is exactly that for me. No issues. Everybody has there own way. OP asked for options. I’m providing options.

[uptheoctave]

Originally Posted by its2loud

Unbalanced is fine unless the Mac is 800ft from the MTRX.

Line level out of my Mac Studio is exactly that for me. No issues. Everybody has there own way. OP asked for options. I’m providing options.

I'm not arguing with you- I thought we were discussing it.
I'm explaining why i made the choices I did.

We can have different perspectives without it being competitive, right?

[its2loud]

I’m just throwing out options for the OP. They can decide for themselves.

Thunderbolt card
USB-c Dante adapter
3.5mm cable to analog inputs of the MTRX Studio.

All viable options. I’m sure there are more.