DDP

[Digi Engineering]

Hi all,

Recently there was a lot of interesting discussion about DDP buried in the "Why are you still using MLCD?" topic. I've decided to create a new topic that is more visible so people that are interested in DDP will notice it and be more likely to post. Many thanks to those who already posted and I hope you'll continue to post.

I'm trying to gauge how much demand there is for DDP, to help Digi decide what level of development effort is justified.

-- Marc

[blairl]

(The following was posted in a different thread. I thought I'd put it here to get the discussion going)

I'm speaking out in support of DDP. I didn't realize it would take the users speaking out in order to reimplement DDP as part of MLCD. I used to use DDP when it was supported in earlier versions. Let me give a couple of reasons why DDP should be supported.

1) The competition has it.
2) This is probably the most important. Many CD replication facilities exclusively use the DDP format to cut glass masters. It's true that they tell you they will accept any sort of media from DAT to CD to 1630, but they end up transfering it to the Exabyte DDP format before actually cutting the glass master. A CD replication facility that I use, Nimbus, has this policy, so I USED TO send them a finished DDP which they DID use to cut the glass master. I don't know about the rest of the MLCD users, but I don't want anyone transfering what is supposedly FINISHED when I send it to them.
3) Clients who know mastering expect this option. (Clients who know mastering generally don't want digidesign products used on their masters but that's another story for another time. DDP support would help clients opinions become more favorable.)

[Montie]

BTW: Thank you for asking. Lately, I have been under the impression that Digidesign didn't really care to listen to what their customers had to say.

In essence, I am seconding blairl's statement. Although, I would like to add the following observations.

DDP is important, as least at this point, to assuring that there is little or no alteration of the pre-master data by the replication facility.

Honestly, I wish their was another way of doing it that wasn't cost prohibitive to me. Right now, there is no other affordable option available to me that is accepted by the majority of replication facilities.

I have been using CD-R's since you removed the DDP option, but I do not enjoy having to cross my fingers when I ship the pre-master. When something ugly happens I would rather it be that the FedEx guy ran over the package NOT that it was an error in MY process. It is MY problem when difficulties develop between my work and the duplication plant. I am a professional and I am responsible for delivering what I promise. I can be held legally liable for NOT delivering my services, as promised or expected.

CD-R's and the care with which they must be produced, handled, shipped and transfered are too subjectable to error.

With DDP, opportunities for errors produced by the mastering technicians at the duplication plants are reduced(fewer operations, data paths, dedicated hardware/software, etc). The technicians enjoy this as well. I know because I have spoken with them. Call them. They will be thrilled that you are considering putting the DDP option back in MLCD.


Off the topic of DDP:

How about a MLCD Pro and MLCD LE?

Why? It seems like Digidesign is trying to serve two markets with one product.

Consumer/Project Audio
vs.
Professional Audio

The "dummy" feature restrictions that have been placed in MLCD are going to force me to replace Digidesign software and hardware with another dedicated mastering based DAW...SERIOUSLY.

I was selling the "hidden track" option to music clients until you put in limits(i.e. Track #1 pre-gap of ONLY 3 seconds or less). It is getting to the point that everytime I update MLCD to function with new hardware the first thing I do is check to see what fuctions have been removed or restricted.

I would be willing to pay more for PROFESSIONAL oriented Digidesign products and support for those products.

...and last, but not least...

GET RID OF PACE AND FLOPPY DRIVE AUTHORIZATIONS!!!!!

It is the single thing that EVERY Digidesign user truly hates about your products.

Again, thank you for asking. That was a pleasant surprise.

Stephen "Montie" Haun
Artists @ Work, Inc.
St. Louis, MO.

[This message has been edited by Montie (edited 09-16-99).]

[Ulrich Lorscheider]

(The following has been posted by me in a different thread)

Hi Marc, hi Digi,
"DDP is another format sometimes used for mastering."
"I have heard that DDP is much more popular in Europe and Asia than in the U.S."

Well, it's not only just another format, it has additional features. With DDP you can create a Premaster with a duration of more than 74 minutes (most of my productions), and you can perform a verify pass to check your data.

"Speak up if you really want it."

OK, here we go! I still stick to MLCD 1.4.1 because of DDP support. I think that's not funny. Even SEK'D now supply their products with DDP support - and these products origninally were aimed to the consumer market and are much more cost-effective. So what about Digi and professionals?

"The demand for DDP is apparently much lower than the demand for CD-R support."

Each Update of PT software includes new features, and I'm sure many of them are only required by a minority. So take care of the DDP-minority, too! Come on, it can't be so difficult, just a few lines of code! Perhaps somebody at GreyMatterResponse can help you...

U.L.

[SegueBoot]

Here is more support of DDP!

While Masterlist/Protools is far from the ideal mastering solution it seems to work for low-range to mid-range mastering work, and I will continue to use it. Not all of my clients want the DDP but some do so please continue to support it. I only wish that a DDP could be played back for confidence listening, like a 1630! While I dislike CDRs you can at least listen back for defects.

I also support the need for a Masterlist Pro, since Adaptec's Jam is basicaly the same as Masterlist CD, please give us more features!
I would love be able to minimize the generations of EQing,compression, fades, etc. in Protools (mostly through external hardware, Manley, Avalon, etc.)then creating the final audio file ready for masterlist. Could this be accomidated within Masterlist Like Sonic Does.

GET RID OF THOSE STUPID FLOPPY DISK AUTHORIZATIOINS!!!
I hate adding floppy drivers to my system folder just to install software.

[SegueBoot]

Marc,
Just to add, I just read your comment on not relying on Grey Matter Respose. I have had nothing but problems with them for years, when I started using the DDP support I went through three Mezzo Master disks before being able to install it, their tech support was terrible and any one will tell you how much better Retrospect is than Grey Matter's back-up software. Bottom line please bring back DDP support and don't use Grey Matter Response, write your own drivers.

[Digi Engineering]

Hi all,

Thanks for your comments. While on the subject of MezzoMaster, I figured you might be interested in this short little page at GreyMatterResponse:

http://www.mezzogmr.com/mmastersuppage.html

-- Marc

[Digi Engineering]

A question for all you MLCD/DDP users:

What version of MacOS are you guys using? I ask, because GMR tells us that MezzoMaster 1.1 only works on System 7.x (the installer crashes and burns for me on my OS 8.6 system). Are you guys keeping around a drive with System 7.x for your DDP work?

-- Marc

[This message has been edited by Digi Engineering (edited 09-24-99).]

[total]

Hello!

This is as I said before a really big thing to look into for Digi. If you fix the DDP writing with ML ProTools will be a big thing in mastering. I tried to switch to Sadie because of the DDP but the clients prefer that we use PT so........
So we have a separate computer (7600) for DDP writing with system 7.6.1.
For PT we use a 9600/300 and we do everything ready at there. At 9600 we use ML 2.01. Than we move the HD to the 7600 with ML 1.41 and write the DDP. It's a bit of hassle but not much of a choice.
The talk at Mezzos homepage about a future for MezzoMaster does not make me to happy. To be honest I don't believe in them that much even though I use Mezzo program for backup.

Regards
Kaj Erixon

[total]

There is also a need for a way to write SCMS to a DDP-tape. It is not supported now and we have a few companies who insist that we use that . The only way now is to write a CD with a Richo-writer.

Regards
Kaj Erixon