Digi 001 Vs. MOTU 2408

[lfont]

After reading a few messages in the user conference, I'm have several doubts on buying a digi 001. Is MOTU 2408 the way to go?
I know that the MOTU 2408 does not have MIDI
or optical ADAT/SPDIF connections. The prices are similar, and they run with LAP.

I just want to buy something that works, so I can spend the time creating and recording music as opposed to updating drivers and configuring my system to make things work.

Any response is apprecitated.

lfont

[dcornutt]

The 2408 does have the optical i/o...and plenty of it.

Mainly..as you surmised..there is no midi port on the 2408. Also, the 001 has 2 built in mic preamps..for plugging mics directly into the 001 (which most people report sounds pretty good). Also has a nifty footswitch for punch in/out recording.

The 001..as limited as it is..is a farily complete plug and play unit. (if you get past the specs)

Youll need additional equipment for the 2408.
Youll need a midi box
And, youll need a mixing board for mic, etc..input.

That said..heres the rub...you can add anything you want to the 2408..and continue to grow. It has sync options..included..like wordclock (you'd have to buy optional equipment and..do workarounds..to sync all your dat/adat in an 001)...the 2408 has all this built in..converting between formats.

Also, you can buy a midi box..single port MOTU for 49 bucks..and thats retail!
The point here is..if you need more than one midi port..your gonna be buying another midi box for the 001 as well.

As for mix boards..same thing..if you need more than 2 mics..youll be using a board anyway (recommended anyway..for monitoring reasons). Again, you can buy a cheap..4 channel board..(which may not sound as good as the 2 built ins on the 001)..or..something like a Mackie 1202..whcih is 8 to 12 channel mixer with nice sounding mic pres. OR..you can go higher..again..same for both.

So, the difference here is ..

for 800 bucks..the 001 is an all in one package. But, if you need more..or outgrow it..youll only be frustrated. While you can get additional mic i/o , a board, and additional midi channels..and..you can buy a MTP/AV from Motu and use up one of your spdif ports to run smpte to it..and convert it to midi time code..and add some sort of word clock ..to lock it all together....whew..and STILL not have a smpte timeline...OR ..you can buy the 2408..and be done with it. It has all this. Built in.

So, bottom line is...if your needs are small..and you suspect they will be for a while...then..the 001 is a great deal and a complete package. If you suspect..you may need to expand..you can, somewhat, with the 001..by adding more channels for mic input via an external mixer...more midi i/o thru a better external midi box..you can get it to sync to movies..and get adat sync..by buying about 500 to 1000 dollars worth of additional equipment. But at that point..the 899 2408 is an absolute bargain.

Now, lets get to software..if you plan on using PT..then..you have to use the 001..period. If you plan on using another software..then I would recommend you consider using THAT companies software with that product. Thats the name of the game. You don't want to end up having your software manf..playing games ..with your hardware manf..not updating..etc. Trying to outsmart the market here usually means you ll end up being disapointed. I mean..if you say..hey..logic for software..but then..I can run..this hardware..cause it has these extra things..what you usually find out AFTER you buy it ..is..that those "extra" things..only work with THEIR software. Here..you have to be very, very careful.

If you have simple home/hobby recording needs..just you and mabey a couple of friends recording..and dont' suspect..youll be needing to use a lot of dat/adat (the 001 will stay in sync with your dat/adat for short work..like songs..but for movies, and long form work, it will drift without being "clocked" to some reference)
..or..sync for movies..etc..then..get the 001. Its cheap..it sounds great..and as limited as it is..youll have everything you need to get started.

If you think you may need more than the 001 currently offers..then..my advice is to stay away from it.

Finally, don't let the posts from concerned people here or elsewhere affect what you think your needs are. I currently am banging my head up against the limits of PTle..and..Im left wondering what my options are for staying with Digidesign products without spending 10 x what my initial investement was.

That doesn't mean..YOU will. We all have different needs. Currently..my needs revolve more around..being able to integrate my audio system..with video decks..and..other equipment for working with video. That may be a totally different need than someone who just wants to record some music at home..and not have to worry about it.

All DAW;s have stiff system requirements. Digi is no different. Although, I think Digi currently takes the prize for needing the most ram..and having the stiffest system requirements..its not always easy to get everything working together in any DAW.

This goes back to what I said about integration and sticking with one manf.

If your using 001 with PTle..then..your chances of getting everything working..and staying working..are better than if you decide to use 001 .and..say..Logic with it.

Same for everthing else..youll have less problems using Digi performer with the 2408.
Theres ALWAYS fine print for these things.
The best place to look is in the tech support sections of the manf website. This is where you will find..usually in the FAQ sec..what little things don't work with what. (like you can only use 2 of the 2408 inputs when you use the PCI driver for it..in other apps.)

That said..Digi stuff IS more proprietary than anything else out there. If you are using all Digi stuff software/hardware..this isn't a concern. If you are trying to mix and match..it is.

Most other manf use standards..like ASIO drivers..for their hardware..which gives you a better chance of getting performance..and compatiblity on some level with other manf products. In the end..using one manf hardware with another manf software..means..your gonna loose certain capabilities when compared to using an all in one or..the same..soft/hard from one manf.

My advice is..no matter which way you go..stay with one manf. Try to get as much capability as you can afford up front. Consider your current and near future needs (all this will be outdated in a year or so but that doens't necessarily mean you *have* to upgrade it).

There is currently a big whole in the Digi product line..as..001 users needing more..have no where to go for an upgrade other than..straight thru the roof to a 10 grand TDM system. I suspect..Digi will have to patch this whole sometime soon. When? Who knows. Should you wait? Probably not. Should you buy now..and hope that this happens? ..only if you think the 001 will fill all your needs for the next year or so.

Also, I might mention..most of the people I know..who just want a home hobby system to play with..really, really ..like things like softsynths..and..plugins. They like to play with those sort of things.

Currently..the 001/PTle..ships with very, very few marginal plugins. To get more..youll be adding Waves..or Bombfactory..or KOL..expensive plugs..which all sound great..but use tons..and tons of cpu resources on your system. In some cases..you could only run one or 2 of these plugs before your system would crap out..even with a G4.

Ill just mention this as somthing else for you to look at in making your decision. Most other packages..include about 3 to 6 times as many plugins..as PTle. Also, the format. If the package you want to use supports VST plugins..you can have access to tons and tons..of free/ to low cost plugins. Youll have more and cheaper options for using plugins and softsynths/samplers with another product. While Digi PTle does support the same pro plugs..that you could use in any other package..as well as certain softsynths..that use their proprietary drivers..the fact that the system requirments/overhead on the 001 is so high (again..the highest..PRO level)..means..your gonna be walking on eggshells trying to do things like this when compared to other systems products. (which also have more 3rd party support) Its something to think about.

None of the Digi format TDM/RTAS plugins are cheap. And Digi isn't going to be supporting VST..or anything like that. So, what you see is what you get..and its ALL at the pro level..pricing, use..and..cpu consumption.
That said..if you want to go prolevel on any other platform..youll be buying these same plugins. I just mention it because at the home/hobby level..the 001/ptle doesn't offer the same flexiblity in this area.

I think Digi is still trying to sort this whole thing out. I mean..they were always just a PRO company..that had different priced hardware. Now..they are split...on the one hand..they have pro stuff..and now..have segmented off this home/hobby thing..with limited products. There are still issues for Digi to work out here.

Contridictions like..you don't get x feature because its pro..but..here are your PRO system requirements. etc..

So, the plugin thing is like that also. On the one hand..they only give you a handfull of plugs..that are really basic and simple..because..your a home/hobby user..and then..if you need more plugs...your only option is to buy PRO level equipment for mabey a lot more money than you would like to spend. So, you don't get the home/hobby advantage of downloading the latest VST gooberfoober plugin..for free..and playing with it.

The 001 is an all in one..basic..system for home recording..and limited for such use in software..but..your system requirments are higher than any other DAW..PRo or not..in the world (the only exception being TDM..and that..not by much)

So, there are still some rough spots for Digi to work out with their marketing/product line.

On the one hand..Digi has marketed this 001..as a PRoToy. Something that would be fun..and powerful. Something that had the ease of use..etc.. But what they have really is a limited pro unit. Everything about it..from the system specs..to the plugins...etc..is all pro level stuff as far as system requirements..and what you can and can't do with it. This intrigues some users..and they are spending thousands on plugins..etc..only to find..they can run only one or 2 of the new latest greats Waves comp..or..reverbs.

Think about ALL of this, when you make your decision.

In the end..don't let the fact that SChom or anyone else isn't happy..sway your decision directly..but instead..use this info..about whats missing..etc..and judge it against your own needs.

In the end..you may find ..like a LOT of people have..that the 001 is just what you were looking for...a low priced/limited all in one unit..that has a "PRO" feel to it, that will get you started learning PT and saving for your 10 grand PT TDM studio.

And, youll even get treated like a pro
Money means nothing.
Forced upgrades.
Youll swear off VST plugins for good..as..amature stuff and go for the 1,000 dollar stuff.
Proprietary hardware/software
Stiff and restricted system requirments.

In this regard..its just like having a TDM system..for only 800 bucks!

I only mention this because..evidently..some people find this part of it.."appealing".

I personally find it to be only a contradiction in terms/marketing.

dcornutt

[coaster]

hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee hee LOL!

ps yes you do need a wave editor for stereo files, any type of REAL dynamic processing, etc.

SDII works good but you need the KRACK to run it on 8.6

[garuda_x]

that one post was so damn long i forgot what it said

[wartortle]

schom, what do you need a separate wave editor for if you've got pro tools? Maybe you should spend some time reading the manual.

[BCBud]

I think the main reason for buying the 001 is the software. I have used Cubase, Logic, Nuendo, Crapwalk you name it. And I still find Protools to be the most intuitive and creative software. If all you want is I/O, the 2408 beats the 001 hands down, but you have to consider what your front end is.

[Neil Ward]

Schom

ever heard this before...

< a poor workman always blames his problems on his tools >

.... of course you haven't ... you didn't go to school... POOR little boy!

[This message has been edited by Neil Ward (edited November 09, 2000).]

[rdpete]

dcornutt, I wish somebody would have explained things to me, like you did above, when I first started to get into the DAW world. Nice job!

[bassmac]

I agree, that’s a very useful and comprehensive explanation - it’s nice of you to take the time.

bassmac

[doc22]

dcornutt,

Nice job. I always enjoy your posts and yes, it was very kind of you to spend so much time with your explanation. I few years back when I got into digital audio, I was fortunate enough to have someone help me separate my wants from my needs, which is what your post is doing.

Both Digi 001 and MOTU 2408 are very professional TOYS. For $1000, one can get very good results. I think what's important, is try to assess where you think you'll be in a year with your recording, then build you DAW base on that. Realize, though, that the deeper you get into a company, the more proprietary the equipment gets AND it doesn't get any cheaper. For instance, you can start with a 2408, which is a nice piece of equipment, but if you're working with a Mac, the first thing you'll want to do is trash AudioDesk and get Digital Performer. So, you've just added a few more hundred dollars to your investment. Plus, the bucks don't stop there. Your first good mic-pre will probably cost as much as your 001 or 2408.

Try to figure out where you're going and DO YOUR HOMEWORK. If you haven't done that, then the only person you can complain to is yourself.

Good luck to all and make music,

doc22