Does HD Native Need A Interface To Run ?

[Oliver M]

Originally Posted by Roulette Records

Second worse came in the RME Fireface.

Get your ears fixed, soon!


Oliver

[drumster]

I've owned both the 192 IO and the Lynx Aurora, and there is no comparison to the new HD IO. The new Avid interfaces are in another league and many levels above an MBox 3. The thing to keep in mind when using a third party interface is that you can't count on compatibility. With the HD IO you're getting a powerful DAE link to HD Native with some of the best AD/DA on the market.

[Roulette Records]

Originally Posted by nst7

That test was the Mbox Pro. Which is still impressive. But the new Avid HD interfaces are a whole nother level. Everyone who's heard them vs. the old HD interfaces has been blown away.

By the way, Apogee had nothing to do with designing these interfaces.

One other thing about these new HD interfaces, is that because of the advanced design, they are lower latency, in that they actually convert the audio to digital faster than the old ones, and other current ones.

By the way, here's a post from just this morning from an experienced HD user who just switched to the new HD IO (he mistakenly calls it the 888, but don't get confused):

http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=311664

Hey thanks for the link !

Well I guess I will be doing a converter shoot-out test and recording the results. I can't believe anything anyone says until I listen for myself. And the most important thing, do a real blind test with ALL possible variables gone.

This is done correctly by very few. To be honest, Avid didn't even do it right. Mainly cause they were unable to supply a recording of "source audio" first to let us hear HOW each converter was changing the original sound. Without that, ultimately you are in the dark as to what is this converter doing to my audio.

MBox "impressive" ? Hmmm, well I didn't think so. It sounds like exactly how much it costs IMO. lol.

I'm interested to see how the new interfaces stack up. Since you have to get one with a HDX set up, it looks like I will be getting one anyway without wanting it. I'll add it to the test then. Compare, then sell it if it don't stack up. Keep it if I like it.

Sorry for the misquote, my bad, but I was told by a reputable dealer that Apogee was involved with the design of Avids new interfaces. They are known to do this a lot, like with their "PCI/e Expansion Chassis" which were really made by Magma, the leader of Expansion Chassis, so it sounded believable to me.

Hey nst7, I was also told that bundled with a HDX system comes 2 licenses of HD software that can be run ONE at a time. The second license authorizes you to run a version of HD that can be ran on a laptop (or whatever, but meant for laptop) with no card, no interface. Is this true ? Of course it will be HD but limited down due to no I/O's etc... but still it seemed great, so MAYBE I don't have to buy a 2nd system (was going either PT10 w/CPTK or HD Native) for my laptop ? This would save me a bundle, and would be a no brainer that I would "trade in" my HD 3 Accel for HDX now. Trying to get a solid answer on this though is hard. I've asked on these forums several times with no straight answer. Even Digitech told me to talk to my local dealer.. LOL, which is where I got all this info in the first place, which is sometimes wrong.

[Roulette Records]

Originally Posted by Oliver M

Get your ears fixed, soon!


Oliver

LOL ! Different strokes I guess. I could say the same for you, pending on if you meant the RME Fireface should rank lower or higher than what I said.

I've got pretty acute ears. Known to hear a lot more than my fellow colleagues. There is so much to listen for, then after that FEEL for with your eyes closed. On multiple blind testing, I've noticed time and time again thats where these cheaper interfaces fall short.

BUT everyone does look/listen for different things in their musicality. What I am looking for may not be what you look for. Also, age is a big factor. The older you get the less highs you hear, the less magical "sheen" across the top you hear, and therefore it becomes less important, and you begin focusing too much on the lower frequencies.... sometimes for others it is vice versa. I try to get the best average across the board. Also frequently get my ears checked to make sure I am aware of my actual frequency hearing range at my current age at the time, etc...

MOST important is the groove and the song man, really, I'll make a hit on FruityLoops using a $50 Shure mic and a Barbie Laptop with the worse conversion --- But once you got the knowledge that its all about the groove and magic of a real well written hit, then its fun to make sure you rock the best gear in the world that YOU like. So really, its all about the fun and skill of this, not necessarily the gear.

Originally Posted by drumster

I've owned both the 192 IO and the Lynx Aurora, and there is no comparison to the new HD IO.

Cool, thanks for the info. It is sounding promising about the new HD I/O.... Before I speak, like I said, I'll be doing a triple blind converter test with at least 4 colleagues and we will be recording the results.... Thats the real test.

I never liked the 192's or Lynx Aurora, so as much as I appreciate the comparison, it doesn't say much for me. Last converter test I ran about 5 years ago, they fell pretty far short.

Originally Posted by drumster

The thing to keep in mind when using a third party interface is that you can't count on compatibility.

Been using 3rd party interfaces for 10 years now. NEVER had one problem.

Originally Posted by drumster

With the HD IO you're getting a powerful DAE link to HD Native with some of the best AD/DA on the market.

"Powerful DAE link to HD Native" I can feel ya there --- But - LOL, but the next part is argument-able/subjective.

Again, I'll be testing and post up some results... But this will take a while.

EITHER WAY, please don't take this like I do not appreciate talking to you guys and all the helpful info you are all giving me. Just cause I SOUND pessimistic about the quality of AD/DA that Avid can do (only cause of their history) doesn't mean I don't believe it, nor does it mean I am trying to argue everything. I love talking with you guys, its all good, and I hope you know that. Friendly music gear debates are how we all progress.

So again, LOVE the communication guys !

[Dism]

Originally Posted by Roulette Records

LOL ! Different strokes I guess. I could say the same for you, pending on if you meant the RME Fireface should rank lower or higher than what I said.

I've got pretty acute ears. Known to hear a lot more than my fellow colleagues. There is so much to listen for, then after that FEEL for with your eyes closed. On multiple blind testing, I've noticed time and time again thats where these cheaper interfaces fall short.

BUT everyone does look/listen for different things in their musicality. What I am looking for may not be what you look for. Also, age is a big factor. The older you get the less highs you hear, the less magical "sheen" across the top you hear, and therefore it becomes less important, and you begin focusing too much on the lower frequencies.... sometimes for others it is vice versa. I try to get the best average across the board. Also frequently get my ears checked to make sure I am aware of my actual frequency hearing range at my current age at the time, etc...

MOST important is the groove and the song man, really, I'll make a hit on FruityLoops using a $50 Shure mic and a Barbie Laptop with the worse conversion --- But once you got the knowledge that its all about the groove and magic of a real well written hit, then its fun to make sure you rock the best gear in the world that YOU like. So really, its all about the fun and skill of this, not necessarily the gear.



Cool, thanks for the info. It is sounding promising about the new HD I/O.... Before I speak, like I said, I'll be doing a triple blind converter test with at least 4 colleagues and we will be recording the results.... Thats the real test.

I never liked the 192's or Lynx Aurora, so as much as I appreciate the comparison, it doesn't say much for me. Last converter test I ran about 5 years ago, they fell pretty far short.



Been using 3rd party interfaces for 10 years now. NEVER had one problem.



"Powerful DAE link to HD Native" I can feel ya there --- But - LOL, but the next part is argument-able/subjective.

Again, I'll be testing and post up some results... But this will take a while.

EITHER WAY, please don't take this like I do not appreciate talking to you guys and all the helpful info you are all giving me. Just cause I SOUND pessimistic about the quality of AD/DA that Avid can do (only cause of their history) doesn't mean I don't believe it, nor does it mean I am trying to argue everything. I love talking with you guys, its all good, and I hope you know that. Friendly music gear debates are how we all progress.

So again, LOVE the communication guys !

It's hard to argue with such a reasonable response.

As you say, it's all subjective anyway. I've been recommended gear that some people swear by, but I think sounds like crap. In the end, your own ears do all the talking.

Can't wait to hear your A/B tests, though. Sounds like you are very thorough!

[nst7]

Roulette, if you're thinking about doing the upgrade to HDX, and you really really don't want the interface, I think it's possible to still do it. They don't force you to turn in your old ones. But you really should do it and take advantage of what they're giving you. It's actually a better deal for the interfaces then it is for the system. It's an even swap of a blue interface for the Omni, or a blue interface and $1000 for the HD IO 8x8.

If you decide to do HD Native, it's a little different. In that case you trade in your existing Core card and get the HD Native card (which comes with the free upgrade to HD 10 software) for $1595. If you do that, you can still sell your other accell cards. Then, separately, you can trade in a blue interface, and get $1000 off of any of the new HD interfaces.

You might also take a different route with either HDX or HD Native, and just buy any one of the bundles brand new, and then sell your existing system and interfaces for whatever you can get. I don't know if this would work out better or worse.


Regarding the software license, you don't get 2 separate licenses. But what you can do is install the software on your main system and on your laptop. You just switch your Ilok to whichever one you're using. When using it on the laptop, you can run it without an interface, or with any usb/firewire interface, either Digi/Avid or 3rd party ones. When running it this way, you will have the equivalent of PT10 and the Complete Toolkit - full tracks, surround, etc.

[carlone]

Originally Posted by nst7

You might also take a different route with either HDX or HD Native, and just buy any one of the bundles brand new, and then sell your existing system and interfaces for whatever you can get. I don't know if this would work out better or worse

Worse. They are giving you more than you can get on eBay. Way more if you have PCI cards. If you have PCIe cards it's comparable to eBay until you add in the various fees like PayPal and shipping and transferring ilok auths and so on.

The "exchange" pricing is the best they've ever offered.

[nst7]

There's another thread by Barry Johns following how ebay prices are dropping on the current HD systems, so I see what you mean.

[Roulette Records]

Thanks for this helpful, insightful and informative post nst7,

Originally Posted by nst7

Roulette, if you're thinking about doing the upgrade to HDX, and you really really don't want the interface, I think it's possible to still do it. They don't force you to turn in your old ones. But you really should do it and take advantage of what they're giving you. It's actually a better deal for the interfaces then it is for the system. It's an even swap of a blue interface for the Omni, or a blue interface and $1000 for the HD IO 8x8.

Ha, due to my hatred for (then) Digidesign sound quality I actually do not have any interface to trade in. Only the cards (HD3 Accel - PCI). BUT, I've been crunching numbers, doing comparisons, etc.. and I agree 100%, BEST thing to do is trade in NOW while their going to give me more credit on my current system, than I would get selling it on eBay.

So I still have to get a "Interface" from Avid no matter what in this trade. Unfortunately. I was told. So, I will just get the absolute cheapest one, then use it in the shoot-out test I was going to do (to verify and answer everyones thoughts on the "new Avid" sound quality vs high end 3rd party), then sell it.

Both Prism, Apogee, etc.. has said their flagship best converters will be working with HDX right away. Possibly does right now (out the box) with a cable converter thing that goes from the new "mini port" of the HDX card to the older standard port on the converters.

So I am confident about this decision. Its made. Trade in is eminent.

Originally Posted by nst7

If you decide to do HD Native, it's a little different. In that case you trade in your existing Core card and get the HD Native card (which comes with the free upgrade to HD 10 software) for $1595. If you do that, you can still sell your other accell cards. Then, separately, you can trade in a blue interface, and get $1000 off of any of the new HD interfaces.

After the calculations, and long thinking about future, etc.. I have decided to skip Native. I need the HDX one day anyway for when my bigger main studio's remodel is done. So I need to take advantage now of the trade in if I want to get better value and focus all money toward it. For now it may be overkill, but it is the best decision.

Originally Posted by nst7

You might also take a different route with either HDX or HD Native, and just buy any one of the bundles brand new, and then sell your existing system and interfaces for whatever you can get. I don't know if this would work out better or worse.

They are fetching sometimes only $2,500 for a full HD3 Accel Card system on eBay !!! $5,000 for an entire turnkey system, Computer, Screen, HD3 Accel system, thousands of Plugs, etc..

Its looking ugly for that. Like I said above, after long calculations, I figured it is best to get my $4,000 of credit that Avid is giving me for my HD3 Accel Cards, and then pitch in the rest, replace, buy the other things I'll want too.

Originally Posted by nst7

Regarding the software license, you don't get 2 separate licenses. But what you can do is install the software on your main system and on your laptop. You just switch your Ilok to whichever one you're using. When using it on the laptop, you can run it without an interface, or with any usb/firewire interface, either Digi/Avid or 3rd party ones. When running it this way, you will have the equivalent of PT10 and the Complete Toolkit - full tracks, surround, etc.

THIS is very helpful nst7, thanks man ! I now am very clear on how it works. And now, this sweetens the deal for me even more. Instead of using my HDX card now, I can just just the HD Software for this mobile system while waiting for my remodel to get done.

SWEET !

[Oliver M]

Originally Posted by Roulette Records

LOL ! Different strokes I guess.!

I am not talking about "strokes". Check the list of users using RME hardware. And no, I am not one of those. RME make great stuff period.


Oliver