ProTools6.1 Unstable

[Tomio Broman]

I recently upgraded to 6.1 from 5.3.3 on Windows XP.
I'm using the HP XW8000 Single 3 Zhz.
I have ProControl/FaderPack/EditPack/192i/o/PRE/Sync/HD2.

Now I have to admit that the whole system has gotten unstable since
I made the jump from 5.3.3.

I often get the following error when I hit the stop button after
I record something from an external source.
-----------------------------------------------
Could not complete your request because:Assertion in
"\code\vobs\AlturaPorts\NewFile Libs\BDM\Adapters\BNeoa_Utils.cpp". line25.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
When I push OK, Digi discards everything that it recorded up till now,
and the timeline is blank.
Now this can get VERY frustrating, after recording from a VTR for 30 minutes,
(WAV form displaying fine), then when you stop it, "BOOOM" everything is gone.

Is every else having fun with 6.1 ?
Are there any updates?

I downloaded the CS2 update but this seemed to have made things worse.
I finally reinstalled 6.1 and after doing several restarts, if finally captured.
But still as a whole the system seems to be unstable.
(By the way a Digi tech support didn't even know about the update, when I asked him
if there were any.)

[kmshroom]

(By the way a Digi tech support didn't even know about the update, when I asked him if there were any.)

heh.

[AxiomSSL]

Tomio, here is a list of the problems we've been having. As well, inside the list is a couple of things that would be nice if Digi could include in upcomming updates. What's been amazing in this entire upgrade process that we've done from Mac based 5.1.3/Mix24 to PC based 6.1/HD, is that with every issue we've had not one Digi tech could fix it. On sync issue we had for example, WE came up with a work around that Digi couldn't.

And I would agree that the 6.1 software is fairly unstable. Anyway, I could rant for hours, here is the list:

1) When importing an audio file you have the ability to audition the sound in the "Import Audio" dialog box. Our new HD system will not pass this auditioning audio out the digital 1&2 outs that I'm using for the 2 mix Outs. And yes, I checked to see that the auditioning output was set correctly. You have to use analog outs.

2) When opening a session, that was saved on one of our Mix24 systems, on our HD machine the I/O assignments are erased and replaced with the Mix24 session I/O assignments. Not a big deal as you should be able to revert to "last used" I/O assignments. But if you choose to go to the "last used," it loads the last used I/O assignments from the Mix24 system and not the last used on the HD system. In previous PT software releases, if you chose the "last used" it would load up the previous I/O assignments of the machine you are currently using. So, in hopes to fix this, I made and saved an I/O template on the HD system. However, when I load up this template, it still retains all the I/O assignments from the Mix24 system along with adding my template I/O assignments. Still making sense? Now at this point you would think that I could save and close the I/O dialog box and all my tracks would play. Nope. Because all the Mix24 I/O is still there, it doesn't automatically change to the HD I/O. Again, not a big deal if you only have a few tracks, but this becomes very time consuming when you have many tracks.

3) This happens intermittently: When consolidating regions, say for example four of them, one of the regions will be duplicated four times.

4) We do a lot of sync to picture work. We use our SSL console as the master and sync both ProTools and our VTR's to it. On our 5.1.3 Mix24 systems you turn the sync on (Command+J or Ctrl+J) placing PT in remote and it follows the console flawlessly. And, WITH THE PROTOOLS REMOTE STILL ON, you can go back to ProTools and perform edits or playback. With the 6.1 software, each time you want to perform edits or playback you have to disengage the remote setting in the transport window in ProTools.

5) The first 192 I/O box, with the ProTools application up, all the input and output LED's are maxed out.

6) Opened the Waves L1 plug in on a track and when I went back to the plug-in list to open L1 on another track it wasn't in the list. However, I can Alt+Click and drag it down to another track.

7) In a single session is there a limit to the amount of saves you can do? After many saves, in a single session, I’ve gotten an error message that says permissions are denied or the computer has locked up altogether.

8) ProTools needs to be able to run under users without admin privliges

9) A utility for opening a session on a pc that was saved on a mac prior to the “Enforce Mac/PC Compatibility” being added in the PT software.

10) Did not tell us about Accel cards being released so close to when we purchased our HD system.

11) On Waves plug ins: when the plug in is open on the page, sometimes you can't engage play

12) When you close a session and keep the PT application open, you can't move the session folder. The PT pointer stays on the session folder.

13) Out of date specs for PC's on website and with phone in sales department

[steve at Your Heaven]

AxiomSSL,
I might have some info about 2 items:

#11) "On Waves plug ins: when the plug in is open on the page, sometimes you can't engage play"-
I have always found that I can't initiate play while the active Window is the plug in, but the plug in can still be visible while you play the session, you just have to click in the Protools Window to make it the active window first. You can then make the plugin window active, so you can adjust it.

#12) "When you close a session and keep the PT application open, you can't move the session folder. The PT pointer stays on the session folder."-
I believe this is an OS issue, not a Protools issue. The same thing happens (not sure if always or just sometimes) even with Word files that I have closed in Word, but want to move or delete. I often (always?) have to close Word first.

[nikki-k]

Hi! Sorry to hear you are having problems.
I have an HD3, original 192. Mixing in the box, not doing any video work.

As far as stability, no problems here. Yes, the hardware Digi lists are quite out of date. While the sheer number of combinations possible with a PC makes it impossible to test every one, deciding which ones to test must be overwhelming as well. I tried to start a website where I would form a database of known combinations of hardware, as well as software, that work, with details from each owner. However, no one bit the bait I dangled, so it never got past square one. I have the time to do it, so it is a real shame.

1) I havent seen this problem. Might be due to multiple interfaces, or might be a bug in the software to do with multiple I/O units.

2) Annoying one. When loading a session from a different system, it should at least prompt to use the session I/O, or retain the current. To get around this, I have created a set of I/O configs, and import the one I want/need. Before importing, I click the little blue light next to the path name. When asked to delete unused, I click yes. Has worked so far. But, I/O assignment/reassignment with sessions from other machines definitely needs to be addressed.

3) Have not seen this one yet. I use the various "region" and "selection" commands frequently when writing.

4)Havent worked with video.

5) Only one I/O.

6)I use Waves all the time. Never seen this problem. Had some problems with BF plugs, but all the rest have been fine...so far.

7 & 8) I am the only user, but I set up a second account, with admin privs, so that if anything ever corrupts, I have the original Admin Acount to fall back on to try and repair. I do frequent saves, and the only error I have seen doing this is the "exit" menu item being shaded out infrequently.

9) Not sure how possible this is. Although a pain, finding a Mac user that can open and resave "the new way" is only work around I know of. What would be cool is if Digi would offer a free service, where a registered user could send in a session such as this (on DVD maybe?), and do the *conversion* and return it on user supplied media (a blank DVD maybe?). I dont see it happening, but figured I would mention it. If I ran into this type of situation often, I would be finding a place to do this for me. If it happened once or twice a year, I would be calling my dealer (who I bought my rig from), and ask them nicely.

10) Yeah, this one is a bummer. Supposedly it was one of the first times DIgi actually had a decent "blackout" of info on it until a week before release. How close to the Accel announcement date were you? If it was within 30 days, my dealer would have apologized and swapped I think. Maybe not...

11)Waves plug-ins currently grab "keyboard focus" if the gui for a plug is open, and the last thing clicked prior to a keyboard entry intended for PT was within the Waves GUI. There are a few plug-in developers that do this. One of the ones I talked with subsequently changed this.

12) Yes, an OS issue. Once a session is opened after closing one, the session closed is once again able to be deleted/renamed/etc. Until then however, the OS has *anchors* in it. Anyone know how to stop this?

13)As stated above, yep. When I originally built a PC for HD, I followed their specs. I built my own computer (always have, always will), and I could not get the performance out of it I *should* have been able to get, based on comparisons to Nuendo 2 and a couple other similar apps. Almost sold everything Digi and went N2. Almost. After several lengthy discussions with people at Digi, I decided that I would have to take a chance, and grab hardware they have not even attempted to try.
I have detailed my current system in other posts, but to summarize, I currently can load the 3 cards to near max, 4 DSP 128 voice, throw some RTAS in there, light-to-medium edits, 128 discrete wav files of 3 minute+ duration, all busses, auxes, single Master Fader, 44.1/24-bit. My own "torture test session." Takes a bit to load, but it runs glitch free, off of a single IDE drive dedicated to audio, running off an onboard controller. With no RTAS loaded, the host is barely working, kinda sits there and laughs at me.

Maybe I am just lucky somehow. Nuendo 2 is untouched since the new motherboard/system. Going Accel as soon as it is shipping (the "hardware exchange" to Accel has not started shipping yet). Wish I could have been of more help. If I find anyone else that has experienced any of these, or might have an idea, I will port it. Good luck!

crash crash crash crash crash

[DigiTechSupt]

Hi Folks. Just to let you know, we are looking into the adverse behaviors that are described here
by Axiom on this string. I've already asked Tomio to call in so we can debug his crashing problem.
I have also forwarded this information to the relevant Product managers and engineers. We are doing
all we can in support to move these problems up the ladder and get them fixed. We just need to test
and confirm them first.

The symptoms that are described that relate to Waves plug-ins are most likely going to have to be
addressed by Waves. We will still test and confirm the behaviors.

We are working on updating the recommended PC specs on our website. Unfortunately we can't do
anything about strategic Marketing schedules, product releases and such, but we will address the
technical problems from our end. Thanks for your patience.


Tom Siebo
Digidesign Customer support

[AxiomSSL]

I would like to add one more thing that I came across last weekend.

14) When trying to do a punch on a highlighted area with both a pre and post roll set and in Auto Input Monitor, when you engage record, it plays the pre-roll/previously recorded section then drops into record in the highlighted area. Once at the end of the highlighted area it disengages record, like it should, however, instead of then playing the post-roll/previously recorded section what you hear is the input from the source you were just recording. Essentially, it switches out of Auto Input Monitor and into Input Only mode after doing a punch.

[AxiomSSL]

Yet one more issue I have found, if any of you are thinking about using some of the older “first print” TDM Mix Plus cards say from around the year 2000, be careful when you build your own machine to Digi’s specs. The “first print” cards have problematic IRQ issues. Going from a Mac to a PC and supposedly using Mix Plus PCI cards in either machine should work. WRONG! First print cards do not work in today’s PC’s. AND……if you go to Digi’s website (as of today 10/15/03) to get the proper PC from IBM, all three machines are discontinued!!! In other words you are forced to build your own, or get one that is not spec…..hence you will get no real support for any TDM Mix Plus systems you build today. To Digi’s credit though, the Rev cards will work…just not the ‘original’ TDM Mix Plus cards…..but they will charge you for it to do a swap. Don’t look for this ‘fix’ on their website.

[beggehorn]

I've had some weirdness pop up myself lately.

ISSUE 1: I've had a few sessions where ocassionally the computer will reboot. It happened twice yesterday, once when I was scrubbing (by holding the right mouse button) and once when I was using the keyboard command to zoom in (ctrl/right bracket). As far as I can tell this seems to be session sensitive (maybe a corruption issue) because the last time it happened it was on another particular session.

ISSUE 2: At the end of recording yesterday I followed my usual protocol of selecting unused regions, deleting, selecting all regions, then compacting. During the process it gave me an assertion error and froze. When I opened the session after rebooting (yet again) it told me I had missing audio files and opened the Relink Window. Here I discovered that it had not recorded the new audio onto the same drive as the session and previously recorded material. The song had just been restored from backup but I'm used to having PT ask to verify disk allocation which avoids this but it didn't do it in this situation. Heres where it got strange: after PT did not automatically find the missing files, I opened the Task Window to manually search for them. It showed the new audio folder with the files but also showed about 8 sessions on the drive that had been previously on that drive but had been removed. I opened My Computer and the contents were completely different and as I expected. I'm going to make a call when I get back to the studio today to sort this out.