Better Sounding Snare Tips?

[Dan M.]

I am working on getting a solid live drumkit sound. I am using a Digi002 rack. I am micing the overheads with a pair of Samson pencil condensors and Audio Technica drum mics on the kick and the snare. I am compressing the snare channel and gating it.I am close micing the snare near the high hat on the top of the drumhead.The room I am working in has low paneled ceilings, about 8 ''feet high. I wanted to know how to bet a better sounding snare drum, one thats not so "tiney and harsh". I need to work with what I have. Any suggestions? Thanks.

[Dan M.]

Would a Shure Sm57 really make a diffrence? I once tried micing my snare with one and it was veeeery thin and boring sounding, I pre-ed it as well and still...bllllah.Not happy with the results I got. Lemme know what the DUC thinks...
Thanks.

[where02190]

What does the snare sound like acoustically? Is it close to what you ehar in the control room? IF so, then what you need is a different snare if you're looking for a different sound.

IF not, then take all that eq and dynamics off, and move the mics to capture that sound. start with the overheads, the heart of any drumkit sound. You'll get 755 of your snare sound from them easily. (Many sessions I end up not even using the snare mic if the kit is well tuned and the drummers dynamics solid.)

Once you ahve a well balanced, ceneterd kit sound, then add the close mic, again moving it until you are getting what you hear in the studio in your control room.

Listen always in mono, listening for any phase issues.

The key to a good osunding kit recorded is a good ounding kit acoustically. since I am not familiar with the particular mics you are using, I can't say for sure if a 57 would make a diff or not. However it has been a staple of recording for snare drums for decades, and is certainly my first choice. If I need a bit more response or better top end transients, I usually go to an Audio Technica 4041.

some guys like to also mic the bottom of the snare, but I've never found this very useful, adding more problems than solutions.

Consider a room mic 8-10ft in front of the kit, about chest height to the player. I find a LDC in omni mode (like the AKG C4000B) or a rode NTK (another Lg diaphram condensor) worh well.

Get the best sound before you start eqing and compressing.

[Lanois WannaB]

I couldn't agree more with the tips that have been given. If it's not recorded right to begin with then you are only "sugaring a turd." Sorry to be so crude. What I have found to work for me, if I really need the snare to "cut" through the mix is this. I copy the snare track to another track. Then on the copied track I apply some really hard compression so that the attacks are pretty consistant. I set a pretty quick release on it as to not get the rest of the "Ring" of the snare. Then mix it w/ the rest of the drums to your liking. the same can be done effectively with the kick. Or if I don't want something so dramatic I usually put a shelf @ about 5K +2 or 3db just to give it some more presence. These seem to work for me. Good luck!!!

[qgrm]

or just get some great samples and line up the transients of about 3 or 4 of them on top of what you've recorded...that i'll get you sounding nice and fat:)

[pHoNOfiLE36]

some guys like to also mic the bottom of the snare, but I've never found this very useful, adding more problems than solutions.

I could not disagree more. If you get good position on the mics I think that this adds depth and relly makes it feel like the snare is right there in front of you. If you have to, put a phase reversal on one of them. Two sm 57's, one on top and one on the bottom is what I have found to be the most cost effective method. For one it is worth a try because you can also just mute the one on the bottom. Do it and A/B it, I gurantee you will like what you here.

Just my two cents

[Ludicrous Speed]

I could not disagree more. If you get good position on the mics I think that this adds depth and relly makes it feel like the snare is right there in front of you. If you have to, put a phase reversal on one of them. Two sm 57's, one on top and one on the bottom is what I have found to be the most cost effective method. For one it is worth a try because you can also just mute the one on the bottom. Do it and A/B it, I gurantee you will like what you here.

Just my two cents

I agree that the TOP+BOTTOM snare miking is a good move if u have the Mics+pres to spare. I love too play with different EQ's for each one.

Also, the advice about the kit sounding good on its own and the importance of well postioned overheds is definatley valid.

If ur buyin g a snare mic, i would consider the SHURE BETA57. Personally it is one of my favourite multi-purpose mics as far as dynamics go anyway. it is also great 4 toms or quad-box's, delivering a much fuller sound than the SM57, i find.

PS. A SECRET TIP for getting a snare to cut through the mix in mixdown that is my own invention, and in the spirit of Micheal Paul Stavrou(Audio Technology readers will know what i mean.) i will share with u all is as follows.

Send an Aux form ur snare(top or bottom) to the side chain of a gate on another channel (X).
use a signal generator set to "white noise" on channel (X).
EQ the white noise with a High pas filter to taste.
now adjust the settings on the gate till ur satisfied!
the versatilty is great, u can leave a longer release time for a reverb type effect or keep it short for a more "snappy" sound.

this technique also applies to any sound(as opposed to white noise) or drum u want.

Enjoy.

LUD

[sugarfuzz]

I agree with the last 2 post. I always use a bottom mic on snare. My favorite so far is an AT 4033.
I went with the “throw the caution to the wind” approach on my bottom snare mic. I flipped the phase of the bottom mic, and did overdrive the input of the preamp, gated it, then murdered the signal after that with compression and EQ and committed that to disc. I sent the snare through the Focusrite Voice master, and used all of its Comp, Expander Gate, and EQ. Then after it was in PT I compressed, and EQ'd even more, laid that sound right under my 57 Top snare mic, and it was prolly the best sounding snare I have ever mixed. The drummer, and everyone else kept asking what did you do to that snare? Now the drummer did have a really good sounding snare also.

I usually prefer the deeper 6" brass snares. That’s what he used, and it sounded freakin great.
Make sure you have everything in phase, because when I first started recording drums, the freaking phase thing had me all screwed up.

I would also suggest recording a few measures of drums, and giving them a listen before you go ahead and settle on mic placements. Move things around. A small adjustment can make a HUGE difference, especially with the kick.

Hope this helps, good luck!

[Cyamarin]

Using the bottom snare mic (of course) depends on what you want from it. More than anything, the bottom snare is going to pick up ghost notes. If the drummer is playing a lot of ghost notes, you'll probably want a bottom snare mic to pick them up. If not, (say, it's a big epic power ballad), then don't worry about it.

[sugarfuzz]

I pretty much use it for some extra fizz, and crack that I just find hard to get out of the top snare mic. Like I said I usually mutilate it, and add a little right under the top snare, and I love it.