EZDrummer vs Reason

[mbrizendine]

I just purchased EZDrummer 2, along with a few libraries. At first glance, I love the sounds, but I'm not impressed with the control. I've used Reason for a while now, and I absolutely love the control and MIDI editing capabilities. I can map out the drum tracks easily and I can export each part, individually, out to an audio file. This gives me great control over the mix, as I can adjust volumes of cymbals / snares / high hats / ghost notes individually and EQ / Compress / Apply Effects where it's needed.

What I've found with EZDrummer is that I'm stuck with the overhead mix of cymbals, with zero control in the mix (other than hours of automation that still doesn't give me individual control). I know that in a real environment, it's all about mic placement and you don't get that kind of control. But, I'm finding that I can't get my mixes right without that control.

Reason, hands down, has the best MIDI editor and export function that I've seen. But, the drum kits are horrible (especially for metal). Has anyone experienced this issue, and if so, how did you overcome / workaround it? I feel like I just wasted $250 on EZDrummer & libraries.

Thanks, in advance, for your input.

[TOM@METRO]

EZ drummer is the introductory offering from Toontrack. Moving up to "Superior" will give you far more control.

BFD3 is amazing. Take a look at that.

I mostly use Addictive drums, it has enough control for me.

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by mbrizendine

I just purchased EZDrummer 2, along with a few libraries. At first glance, I love the sounds, but I'm not impressed with the control. I've used Reason for a while now, and I absolutely love the control and MIDI editing capabilities. I can map out the drum tracks easily and I can export each part, individually, out to an audio file. This gives me great control over the mix, as I can adjust volumes of cymbals / snares / high hats / ghost notes individually and EQ / Compress / Apply Effects where it's needed.

What I've found with EZDrummer is that I'm stuck with the overhead mix of cymbals, with zero control in the mix (other than hours of automation that still doesn't give me individual control). I know that in a real environment, it's all about mic placement and you don't get that kind of control. But, I'm finding that I can't get my mixes right without that control.

Reason, hands down, has the best MIDI editor and export function that I've seen. But, the drum kits are horrible (especially for metal). Has anyone experienced this issue, and if so, how did you overcome / workaround it? I feel like I just wasted $250 on EZDrummer & libraries.

Thanks, in advance, for your input.

The basic drum kits available in Reason for Kong and for Redrum are, as you say, not great, though there are some nice individual drum samples in both libraries and you can create your own kit. Remember too that there are any number of refills in the Propellerhead shop for both of these as well as kits for the NNXT and NN19 samplers, all of which you already have with Reason. Plus, you can download any samples to use in these kits as well. So you have a lot of versatility already with Reason and drums. There's other Refills out there that aren't sold through the P-head shop as well. You can google all that. I really depends on what you're looking for.

[DonaldM]

And one other thought, you can also import drum kit samples to Structure and edit each part individually and send the audio outs individually for each part for further mixing/processing.

[albee1952]

The single thing that used to bug me with EZdrummer is the amount of snare bleed into the overheads(something that SD2 allows you to adjust). My solution was to print all the drums to AUDIO tracks, then select NONE for the snare, and re-record the overhead audio.

[nigelpry]

You can route EZ Drummer sounds to different outputs, so they appear on different tracks in Pro Tools.

According to this page ...

https://www.toontrack.com/product/ez...#functionality

... You have 16 outputs available from EZ Drummer.

I don't know about drum bleed into other microphones in EZ Drummer, but that's something I use in Superiori Drummer. Maybe that's available in EZ Drummer too?

If it is, then you will be able to isolate every drum instrument into its own channel in the EZ Drummer mixer, then route each of the mixer channels to a different output.

Finally, you set up extra aux tracks in Pro Tools to receive the audio coming out of each of the outputs of EZ Drummer, or audio tracks if you want to record the audio.

[albee1952]

I didn't find that bleed adjustment in EZD, but EZ2 might have it(been doing mostly real drums lately)

[mbrizendine]

Thanks for the input. I have just about every refill that Propellerhead has to offer, but I can never find realistic cymbals and the hard hitting kick drum and snare for heavier metal / djent style music. Again, I love the functionality and ease of use reason offers. I only wish that they'd come out with more modern kits catered to heavier music. The majority of the cymbals / hi hats have so much treble, you have to EQ them to the point of losing all of the dynamics. They also sound light and weak. I'll look around, though.

As far as output to individual tracks, I found a way to do that, but you get bleed and all of the cymbals are combined on a single track. It's frustrating to have the sound you want at your fingertips, but only to find you have no control of the mix.

[DonaldM]

Originally Posted by mbrizendine

.

As far as output to individual tracks, I found a way to do that, but you get bleed and all of the cymbals are combined on a single track. It's frustrating to have the sound you want at your fingertips, but only to find you have no control of the mix.

One possible workaround - (and I don't have EZDrummer, so I'm not sure this will work) but, if EZ allows you to solo individual drum parts, then you could solo each part one at a time and route to separate audio tracks and lay them down that way, one at a time. Be a bit time consuming, but in the end, you might have what you want for mixing and processing. I've done that Boom a few times, since there's no individual routing on that one.

[nigelpry]

Originally Posted by DonaldM

One possible workaround - (and I don't have EZDrummer, so I'm not sure this will work) but, if EZ allows you to solo individual drum parts, then you could solo each part one at a time and route to separate audio tracks and lay them down that way, one at a time. Be a bit time consuming, but in the end, you might have what you want for mixing and processing. I've done that Boom a few times, since there's no individual routing on that one.

Donald, you can route individual EZDrummer mixer channels, which equate to microphones, to different tracks in Pro Tools, no problem.

The problem is that Toontrack's 'method' for presenting realism, involves including mic bleed, so snare sound in kick mics, tom sound in hi-hat mics etc.

We know that in Superior Drummer you can control mic bleed, including removing it altogether. We also know that in EZDrummer 1 you are not given that control. What we don't have is any confirmation from an EZDrummer 2 user to say whether mic bleed control is included in the new version or not.

If you can't control mic bleed, you could do multiple recording passes, as you say, but that is time consuming, and you'd still be soloing the mic not the drum.

You'd have to either drag/drop the MIDI from EZDdrummer onto a MIDI track and mute the notes you didn't want in a specific pass, or remove individual drums from the kit, so only one drum is triggered that way.

Are there any EZDrummer 2 users here who can clarify on the mic bleed question?