Re-learning to mix ITB?

[KentH]

A few humble thoughts with regard to the recording level and relative fader level argument. Too far either way isn't good, IMO.

What seems to be overlooked by those advocating recording at a low level is the fact that your are, in fact, permanently compromising the quality of the audio you're recording by wasting bit resolution. If the very loudest part of a sound peaks way below clipping, then there are less bits available to describe the total waveform. That may matter more or it may matter less, depending on the material, but it's not particularly smart. From a strictly theoretical perspective, for maximum sound quality ideally one should record as hot as possible without clipping.

BUT...as far as mixing ITB goes, the main drawback in my experience from recording hot isn't fader resolution at mixdown but that it gives you less headroom to work with inside the plug-ins. This is especially problematic when you have to boost things in an EQ, for example. So not recording too hot also has advantages at ITB mixdown.

The main adjustment I had to make mixing ITB was mixing up against that hard digital ceiling. In the analog world, people OFTEN clip things on purpose. Everything from a signal on tape to the mix bus on the SSL. More than one successful mixer finds it fashionable to slam the meters on the board over so far they don't really even move. And their stuff can sound pretty good. It's different ITB. In general it's better to be conservative with your levels across the board--especially as you're setting up an initial balance. But if the thought of ever seeing a red clip light in your DAW upsets you, I would say don't try mixing ITB.

On Pro Tools HD at least, it's perfectly fine to leave the faders in the optimal range and pull down the master fader(s) some to keep from clipping. However, be aware that in Pro Tools, inserts on a master fader are always POST fader. What that means in practice is that if you have a compressor across the mix and you need to pull the master fader down, you'll be effectively raising the threshold of the compressor. Depending on your mix this could have a huge effect on the sound and it isn't always possible to get back exactly what you had by tweaking the plug-in. It's also why you probably shouldn't do a fade-out when bouncing a mix if you're doing a lot of dynamic processing on the mix bus, unless you want it the mix to get weird and fall apart during the fade.

Other than the headroom-in-the-plug-in issue, the main thing is it simply takes time and trial and error to get to know your "gear" in terms of plug-ins and start to develop your go-to tools and techniques. They all sound different just like in the analog world. That's why I think guys that have already established a successful career mixing on an analog desk often rip on mixing ITB. Because if they tried to start mixing ITB they would have to go through that process of trial and error to find their go-to tools and techniques to replace their analog counterparts. And since there's simply is no substitute for that other than putting in the time, they'd have to take themselves offline until they did. So they instead claim that ITB doesn't sound good. In reality there's pluses and minuses to both and the end justifies the means IMO.

Hope that helps.

FWIW, here's a link to a white paper Digidesign released that explains a lot about the Pro Tools mixer works and tries to dispel some of the myths out there:

http://akmedia.digidesign.com/suppor...ixer_26688.pdf

[KentH]

Now that I'm thinking about it, there are other drawbacks to mixing ITB.

One is that (for me at least) it's a lot slower, especially if you're mixing with a mouse. There are several other reasons, like the fact that even with a control surface you can only target one plug-in at a time. The limitless recall and plug-in setting savings also mean you can tweak forever without worrying about losing the "magic" you might have going on in an analog mix.

Another, and I only recently started to reflect on this is, is that in the analog world once you do put in the time to get productive and develop favorite pieces of gear, they'll pretty much ALWAYS BE THERE. Also, if well taken care of it won't cost you any more money! Not so with ITB mixing. A whole bunch of things can happen that can cause you to lose favorite tools you've come to rely on. And it's a constant worry even if it doesn't happen very often. And it means having to keep coughing up bread just to keep what you have. It also means that yes, you have total mix recall but only for a finite period of time. That may seem obvious but it's important to remember.

[formfunction]

Originally Posted by KentH

What that means in practice is that if you have a compressor across the mix and you need to pull the master fader down, you'll be effectively raising the threshold of the compressor. Depending on your mix this could have a huge effect on the sound and it isn't always possible to get back exactly what you had by tweaking the plug-in. It's also why you probably shouldn't do a fade-out when bouncing a mix if you're doing a lot of dynamic processing on the mix bus, unless you want it the mix to get weird and fall apart during the fade.

With limited exceptions, no one i know does this anymore. More common is to use an AUX track for "two-buss"... and save the MF for placing "across" busses for attenuation, etc.. Mostly for the reasons you mention. ff

[Siegfried Meier]

I always wished that plugins could be pre or post master fader, depending on where you "patched" them in. Every console I have ever worked on had this option, it always seemed odd that Pro Tools did not...

Sig

[KentH]

Originally Posted by formfunction

With limited exceptions, no one i know does this anymore. More common is to use an AUX track for "two-buss"... and save the MF for placing "across" busses for attenuation, etc.. Mostly for the reasons you mention. ff

No doubt. I just wanted to make the point that inserts on all master faders were post-fader that's all