Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Hardware > Eleven Rack

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-25-2013, 02:53 PM
D1ma D1ma is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 8
Default headphones sound better than any type of speakers, have tried everything.

Hi guys!
I got my 11r a month ago for like 300 bucks new.
First i tried it with headphones, and the thing is just amazing !! (i had pod hd 500 before)
But you know i have always been hating to play through headphones, i like that feel of speakers!
Then i got PA for my 11r and the problem was - in headphones the sound was just amazing, that cutting, raging type of sound from my Fender, that proper steely sort of sound when i split the humb to single coil and that typical SRV sound from neck single. But from PA it was coming sort of weaker option from what i hear in headphones, it's like OK but i don't get that "bite" when connected to PA.
I tried PA, some random bookshelf speakers, KRK monitors, and 2x12 combo to fx loop! Everything sounded so so compared to headphones, how is that possible?
I tried to tweak presets for speakers but it didn't help, smthng just felt wrong. My output set as "Rig out"
I would appreciate if someone have an idea of what could be the problem! But i didn't see any issues of that kind in forums
Thank you
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-26-2013, 09:50 PM
Benoni's Avatar
Benoni Benoni is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Behind YOU!!
Posts: 9,980
Default Re: headphones sound better than any type of speakers, have tried everything.

At what point in the chain are you sending the signal to the rig out?

Have you tried a FRFR type personal monitor, like something from EV, Mackie, JBL, ect....

There is some talk about FRFR speakers here:
http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t=303521

For me I like using headphones, but if I want it loud I just use my studio monitors.

The problem maybe you are just not familiar enough with the 11R yet and have not learned how to tweak it for headphone, amp/cab, and speakers, each can be different.

The problem may also be you are sending the signal before the end of the chain to your speakers.

Open up the manual tonight and give it a read through. Open the pdf and do a search for Output to Amp, that will give you some insight on setting the out point in the chain.
http://akmedia.digidesign.com/suppor...v90x_71670.pdf

I'm looking to see if Avid has any videos on this, if not, I may put one together in a few days.

Here we go, Avid has a video up that shows Output to Amp. Just know that the video is not quiet correct when they say the Mains ALWAYS send the full signal no matter what - if you bypass the cab/mic, its bypassed on ALL outputs.
http://www.avid.com/avid-tv/UsingEle...tage/shadowbox
__________________
Brian

Windows 11 Pro | macOS 12
Pro Tools 2022
benonistudio.com
Youtube Channel - benonistudio
Plugin Deals
@benonistudio
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-23-2013, 09:54 PM
D1ma D1ma is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 8
Default Re: headphones sound better than any type of speakers, have tried everything.

thank you for replying!
as i said i already tried many different options like krk monitors, PA speaker, 2x12 combo (into fx loop), all sounded like crap
a few days ago i decided to give a shot to those ALTO Truesonic PA's, i've already tried one PA though
i bought it, connected and it's still the same s*it
headphones give that brilliant plexi crunch and also recordings sound right, the same as i hear in headphones, but all the options with speakers i mentioned above sound just wrong, i don't even know how it's possible, for the instance when i play through speakers i barely hear the difference when i split the humbucker to single coil, the sound overall is like cheap overdrive pedal
i think i give up on this, this is crazy, i've been trying to solve this for months

And of course i tried to tweak presets differently when through speakers, even downloaded bunch of popular presets from the known website just in case, and they sounded brilliant in headphones, but with speakers the sound was just wrong..
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-23-2013, 10:19 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,621
Default Re: headphones sound better than any type of speakers, have tried everything.

Well headphones can sound great. What ones are you using?

The 2x12 combo: exactly what combo? And were you going into the amp input or the FX loop-in on that combo?

Its very unlikely you will get decent "guitar amp in a room" sounds from smaller speakers/bookshelf speakers etc. The full range monitors that many of us seem to like is the QSC K10s. I've never seen/heard them but I'd hope the Altos are the best bet of all the speakers you mentioned.

Where are you connecting these speakers/monitors to? main output or amp1/2 out?

Where are the speakers pointed, play with moving things around aiming them at your head, bouncing them off a wall etc. Bouncing them, or partially bouncing them can really help with the "amp in the room" type diffuse sound you get from open-back guitar amps. If they are wedges try laying them down on the floor (that can improve bass response), or try lifting them up off the floor. Try everything.

Try cranking up the volume. A real guitar amp can be loud and many people run headphones louder than speakers in a room and this affects their perception of the sound. That issue is fairly common not just for guitar work.

What exactly is in your Eleven Rack rig?

Stick the graphic or parametric EQ at the end of the rig and play with that. (Make sure main out is rig out not amp out).

Is cab emulation/cab resonance on? (it should be for full range speakers). Play with speaker break up setting to hear what sounds good, that can really help.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-23-2013, 11:31 PM
Benoni's Avatar
Benoni Benoni is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Right Behind YOU!!
Posts: 9,980
Default Re: headphones sound better than any type of speakers, have tried everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by D1ma View Post
thank you for replying!
as i said i already tried many different options like krk monitors, PA speaker, 2x12 combo (into fx loop), all sounded like crap
a few days ago i decided to give a shot to those ALTO Truesonic PA's, i've already tried one PA though
i bought it, connected and it's still the same s*it
headphones give that brilliant plexi crunch and also recordings sound right, the same as i hear in headphones, but all the options with speakers i mentioned above sound just wrong, i don't even know how it's possible, for the instance when i play through speakers i barely hear the difference when i split the humbucker to single coil, the sound overall is like cheap overdrive pedal
i think i give up on this, this is crazy, i've been trying to solve this for months

And of course i tried to tweak presets differently when through speakers, even downloaded bunch of popular presets from the known website just in case, and they sounded brilliant in headphones, but with speakers the sound was just wrong..
What output are you using to hook up the external speaker? Mains? Out to Amp?

Where in the chain of effects are you sending the signal out? Is the Cab emulation turned ON?
__________________
Brian

Windows 11 Pro | macOS 12
Pro Tools 2022
benonistudio.com
Youtube Channel - benonistudio
Plugin Deals
@benonistudio
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-24-2013, 12:00 AM
D1ma D1ma is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 8
Default Re: headphones sound better than any type of speakers, have tried everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoni View Post
What output are you using to hook up the external speaker? Mains? Out to Amp?

Where in the chain of effects are you sending the signal out? Is the Cab emulation turned ON?
I tried either (mains and out to amp) outputs, it's all the same.

Cabs are on.

What do you mean 'where in the chain i am sending the signal out'? I have RIG OUT option in the settings.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-24-2013, 12:08 AM
Gjermundsen Gjermundsen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Norway
Posts: 47
Default Re: headphones sound better than any type of speakers, have tried everything.

If i want it loud, i just connect it to my Denon receiver and my 4 200watt speakers. I dont use the main outputs but the phones output. I think it sounds pretty good.
Have you tried connecting your stuff through the phones output? At least then you'll know you should get the same signal as you get when using headphones.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-24-2013, 12:08 AM
D1ma D1ma is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 8
Default Re: headphones sound better than any type of speakers, have tried everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Well headphones can sound great. What ones are you using?

The 2x12 combo: exactly what combo? And were you going into the amp input or the FX loop-in on that combo?

Its very unlikely you will get decent "guitar amp in a room" sounds from smaller speakers/bookshelf speakers etc. The full range monitors that many of us seem to like is the QSC K10s. I've never seen/heard them but I'd hope the Altos are the best bet of all the speakers you mentioned.

Where are you connecting these speakers/monitors to? main output or amp1/2 out?

Where are the speakers pointed, play with moving things around aiming them at your head, bouncing them off a wall etc. Bouncing them, or partially bouncing them can really help with the "amp in the room" type diffuse sound you get from open-back guitar amps. If they are wedges try laying them down on the floor (that can improve bass response), or try lifting them up off the floor. Try everything.

Try cranking up the volume. A real guitar amp can be loud and many people run headphones louder than speakers in a room and this affects their perception of the sound. That issue is fairly common not just for guitar work.

What exactly is in your Eleven Rack rig?

Stick the graphic or parametric EQ at the end of the rig and play with that. (Make sure main out is rig out not amp out).

Is cab emulation/cab resonance on? (it should be for full range speakers). Play with speaker break up setting to hear what sounds good, that can really help.
hi Darryl,thanks
it's more serious than you might think
i had POD HD 500 before and it sounded better with $150 combo than 11r with $300 PA, but i know that 11r is superior, so that's weird

and i tried to move speaker around as you mentioned

my rig chain in 11r normally is "screamer"->plexi->some graphic eq for some extra highs->a bit of reverb
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-24-2013, 12:09 AM
D1ma D1ma is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Chicago
Posts: 8
Default Re: headphones sound better than any type of speakers, have tried everything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gjermundsen View Post
If i want it loud, i just connect it to my Denon receiver and my 4 200watt speakers. I dont use the main outputs but the phones output. I think it sounds pretty good.
Have you tried connecting your stuff through the phones output? At least then you'll know you should get the same signal as you get when using headphones.
hi,thanks
yes, i even tried to plug it in headphones output, sound remained absolutely the same 0_o
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-24-2013, 12:26 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,621
Default Re: headphones sound better than any type of speakers, have tried everything.

Several things you are saying do not quite seem to make sense. The sound *will* sound different between the main outputs and the amp1/2 outputs and the headphone outs for example because of the different levels/output impedance of these outputs. There is no way they really just "sound the same", they should sound a bit different. If they do I really wonder what gain staging you have setup. Where is the volume level of your powered monitors set to? Are you having to run those monitor output knobs significantly up or down compared to the Pod system you had experience with before?

But anyhow with a full range high power monitor style speaker you need to use the Main Outputs and work on playing with settings and all the other things I mentioned to get them sounding as good as possible.

If you want to use a guitar amp/cab for output and want help on that you need to provide info about exactly what you have.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ASIO4ALL2 - Meters Go Up, But No Sound From Headphones Or Speakers! epu Pro Tools 10 2 06-22-2012 02:16 AM
ASIO4ALL2 - Meters Go Up, But No Sound From Headphones Or Speakers! epu Windows 0 06-21-2012 02:58 PM
All about Headphones/Speakers smrpg99 General Discussion 3 06-05-2011 02:16 PM
Monitoring with speakers and Headphones oettinger1919 General Discussion 3 11-25-2009 07:06 AM
Speakers and headphones karlc 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 1 11-30-2007 09:53 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:52 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com