Time comp/exp over multiple tracks-need help

[CCash]

I'm working on a project where the band has determined- now that all the tracking is done- that a couple of songs are too fast (I knew charging by the project instead of by the hour would come back to haunt me).

I'm using a non-TDM system, so I have to use Audiosuite's Time Compression Expansion. Today I copied and pasted a verse section a few times to experiment w/ processing. It included a stereo pair of drum tracks, and a few other tracks (I have the rest of the tracks on a DA-38).

We found the tempo they want at a 1.075:1 ratio. They didn't notice it, but everything was off-time. Phasing on the L-R drum tracks was really bad. I tried to 'eyeball' it at sample resolutions to no avail, because the tracks aren't identical.

Am I missing something? I've never tried to do this to more than one track at a time. Am I going to have to retrack everything? Arrrg. I had my doubts that it would be able to fix the problem, but I was hoping that a short stretch would be unnoticable.

Your replies will probably determine my next move...thanks,
Curt

[Dead Space]

Curt,

I don't quite understand what your stituation is. You need to slow down the songs in ProTools, but you don't have all the tracks in ProTools? Are you syncing the DA 38 to PT or vice versa? The stuff not stretched in PT will be at the original tempo and won't line up (don't take offense if you knew that already, I'm just trying to cover all the bases). There is a slider on the AS time stretcher for rhythm vs timbre. Make sure that is set all the way to rhythm.

If it were me, I would consider retracking to be my best option if the band were insistent on changing the tempi of the songs. That Time Compressor/Expander messes with the audio quality too much for my ears.

Just out of curiosity, what kind of band is it?

A.J.

[CCash]

I meant to clarify- the tracks on DA38 will have to be mixed over to 2 ProTools tracks. Then I'll have to select everything and do the expansion.

It's a rock band. I mixed the drums from the 38 over to two tracks in PT. The scratch tracks, some backups and percussion are also in PT. They're locked to the 38 via MTC.

I'm assuming it'll be a no-go. I know anything too stretched sounds bad, but I'm hoping that with such a small ratio and some advice, it just might work. I expected the probelm to be digital artifacts, but if it's going to knock my tracks out of alignment (phase), then that's a matter that I really don't understand. Maybe the rhthym setting will help? I'll check it out.

[Bretto]

I hate to say this but I've tried this many times with all the possible settings, and many different pieces of software and it never works. tracks are always out of alignment. The only cure that I see for you is to mix to some tape based medium. slow down the tape and run the mix through some kind of pitch processor. Definitely not an ideal situation, but better than having your mix sound like its been run through a phaser!
Good luck and I'd love to see if anyone has another solution
Brett

[Freiberg]

Myself, I'd try going to the final mix and then use serato Pitch'n'Time. My results have been fantastic it. It's pretty costly ($799) ... but it WORKS!

David

[CCash]

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like it just ain't gonna happen. Today I'm going to try putting a two-pop at the head of each track, include them in the expansion, and see if lining them up helps. I don't suspect it will, as the interpolating happens throughout the regions at different places for stereo tracks. Again, anyone with any advice, your thoughts, please.

I found this thread in Mac troubleshooting, http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/003209.html, which was helpful.

David, thanks for the tip, but the price is out of the question right now. But here's a thought, are there any acceptable (i.e. phase relationships remain, like the Pitch n' Time, but cheaper) plug-in's which offer a trial period demo that I could check out? I'll post back with my results.
Thanks.






[This message has been edited by CCash (edited February 23, 2000).]

[CCash]

P.S. need Native Mac non-TDM.

[benderbro]

Pitch'n Time is the only solution I know of, really does the trick! That digi time comp/exp plug in can't do multiple tracks in phase as you have discovered, don't waste your time trying to sync them up, it won't happen.

[DigiTechSupt]

The Rhythm/Sound slider in the Digi Time/Compression plugin is the key for avoiding phasing.

I'm not sure that any plugin on multiple tracks is going to work, I would suggest that you finish the mix, bounce it to disk then Time compress/expand the two track mix down.

Serato may do it, even if it doesn't it is a very cool plugin.

The deal with the slider in the Digi Time Compression/Expansion plugin is this in a nut shell....

When time compressing stereo tracks it is imperative that the Rhythm/Sound slider is set all the way to Rhythm. This will force Pro Tools to remove or add samples in the exact same locations on the two tracks preventing phasing. If the slider is all the way on the "sound" side (or in the middle of Rhythm and Sound), Pro Tools will analyze the files and remove or add samples in places where there is little, less or no audio activity. This will most likely be different in each file causing the two files to shift in time at different locations resulting in phasing.

Jon Connolly
Digidesign Product Specialist

[CCash]

Thanks Jon! and others. Tried the slider deal. On a stereo drum mix, very short snip, no go- very phasey. Tried a click in front of each track, included it in the expansion. Afterwards, the clicks were totally on at sample resolution, so there was no nudging to try.

I'll be trying out Pitch n' Time soon.