how to avoid clipping on post fader bus sends?

[formfunction]

Originally Posted by milaszewski

Hit out at Dave Pensado. This guy must be completely hopeless to some of you!
http://youtu.be/jofMNLoyUZs

He doesn't have this mysterious hidden clipping, he's got the visible one!

LOL.. first you try to justify clipping, then you claim you don't have any clipping, and now you post a video with lots of overdriven plugins.
What you fail to grasp is that people here are defending "good" recording and mixing principles, and solid digital recording facts.
That is no way means that everyone uses them... and some that don't can still end up with good results.
Daves session is still an "ugly" thing to look at... but the bottom line is how does it sound. And based on how into continual learning he seems to be, he would probably learn some good stuff by reading this thread. It certainly wouldn't hurt. ff

[jacko]

Originally Posted by formfunction

lol.. First you try to justify clipping, then you claim you don't have any clipping, and now you post a video with lots of overdriven plugins.
What you fail to grasp is that people here are defending "good" recording and mixing principles, and solid digital recording facts.
That is no way means that everyone uses them... And some that don't can still end up with good results.
Daves session is still an "ugly" thing to look at... But the bottom line is how does it sound. And based on how into continual learning he seems to be, he would probably learn some good stuff by reading this thread. It certainly wouldn't hurt. Ff

LOL

It takes a lot of bad will to misunderstand another person so much... It's funny and sad at the same time. How can you even say that I am failing to grasp anything?
I never tried to justify clipping. I pointed out a design flaw in Pro Tools HD where you can clip post fader send even if the rest of the signal path stays clean with no clipping. I agreed that I do things wrong way.

[Mt.Everest]

If all your tracks are always given to you that hot, why not simply calibrate the meters in ProTools to something more fitting for you?

Such as -24dBFs = 0VU ? This way, the hot signal that you do not mind the sound of at +20dBv will show -4dBFs in your metering and you can keep the faders in the range you want.

Then when you want to push things for whatever reasons near or into clipping you can do so.

It seems to me this is a visual thing for you. Digital Meters mean NOTHING unless you know the point of reference to an actual level such as 0VU. But you aren't interested in the meters giving you numerical information - You just want to SEE them in more detail (?) as this helps your mixing.

Isn't that the easiest solution? This will also increase your headroom if you do any recording as well.

Maybe its too simple so Im missing something huge here as to why this hasn'y been mentioned yet since the OP is all about comfort of physical faders and meter heights (and how achieving that comfort causes PF clipping)

Maybe?

EDIT: I guess the problem with this is that the audio is already recorded at near full scale 24-bit. So playing back a looooong single bass note that was recorded at +20dBv will show a steady reading of -4dBFs on a -24dBfs=0VU cal'd system. If you push that fader up 3dB more, will it distort in sound but not hit the red yet? To be even clearer -- What if you cal to -30?? A +20dBv sound will read as -10fs , but that audio file doesn't have 10 more dB of headroom right?

[ericsvizeny]

Originally Posted by midnightrambler

Well I mix stuff from all over too and I can tell you that anyone who's tracking near 0dBFS is NOT a top engineer.

+1

- Eric

[musicsmith]

Try this: duplicate the offending track, remove its output from the main mix, insert send post-fader on the duplicated track and adjust levels accordingly. This would leave your levels untouched on the original track.

Also, check this neat calculator online for dbV, dbu to actual volts conversion, since all computer mixes have to get converted to speakers at some point, last time I checked my eyes can't hear.
http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-db-volt.htm

Engineers constantly calibrate, monitor and meter equipment. No equipment is without limits. Beyond faulty defect, users should accept these limits or purchase/build the proper equipment.

I have a hammer, I use it to hit nails and stuff. It can also hit my thumb. When that happens, I calibrate properly to ensure it does not happen again.
Same concept, although I doubt calibration would have come second if I had a nail gun.

[formfunction]

Originally Posted by milaszewski

LOL

It takes a lot of bad will to misunderstand another person so much... It's funny and sad at the same time. How can you even say that I am failing to grasp anything?
I never tried to justify clipping. I pointed out a design flaw in Pro Tools HD where you can clip post fader send even if the rest of the signal path stays clean with no clipping. I agreed that I do things wrong way.

hmmmm.... then why post the Pensado vid? It merely confirms that it is all up to the ear anyway. As long as one has good ears.