Opinion & Pre-Amp, help!

[tommydigiowen]

I used a Digi-002 for everything however I am now looking to upgrade before starting my next "album/demo".......

I think the Digi002 is great but does anybody have any suggestions as to where I could find a decent pre-amp for vocals without driving me to bankrupsy?

Any advice would be appreciated.

T

[Obsidian Dragon]

I will respond with my opinion but you are much better off doing a search on this forum. There are thousands of posts like this one already.

First off, there is no "one size fits all" solution for your micriphone preamps. Likewise there is no "one size fits all" for microphones either. The microphone and miccrophone preamp work together to produce the character of the input stage of the recording chain. You also have to consider the source material (female vocal, male vocal, ballads, rock, pop, rap, etc.) and the singing voice and technique. The room acoustics also affect the captured sound. As you can see there are many factors beyond what preamp to use. I've only scratched the surface on this topic.

Having said that, I've tried to get as multipurpose a setup as possible to meet the needs of as many clients as possible given my limited budget. For microphone, I often use a Newmann 103TLM or Rode NT2A for large diaphram use. Some vocalist prefer to use the trusted dymanic Shure SM58 or Beta58. I also use a Royer 122 ribon mic in some cases. My choice of micpre for vocalist using these mics is the UA 6172 channel strip. The tube mic pre helps to warm up the sound for digital recording. Having the compressor in the chain also helps to smoothen things up.

For larger vocal groups (Choirs, or backup sections) is run them through my Digimax LE since it has 8 channels of mic pres connected to the 002R via ADAT optical calbes. It doesn't have all the character as the UA6172 but for groups it does fine. I also use a couple of Presonus TubePre units to as a little color on certain voices.

For electronic instruments I'll either go directly into the 002R's line ins or through a Radial DI box. I usually like to keep these as clean and transparent going in as possible and then add color in the mixing process

For guitar or bass cabs, I either use a Shure SM57 pointed off center of the speaker cone or I use the speaker simulator circuit on many modern amps. I run these in either throught the Digimax LE or the 002R's mic pres. There is no substitute for a great sounding guitar or bass being played through a great tube amp and great cabinents.

For acoustic instruments (strings, brass, woodwinds, purcussion, world instruments, etc.) I use a couple of small diaphram condensors (AKG or Shure) goring through the Digimax LE also. I've experimented with stereo micing but have had mixed results so far. I end up going back to mono micing and overheads in most cases.

I've given up on trying to mic acoustic drums. It takes me too long and I still haven't found the perfect tehcnique to minimize bleeding and still get a great drum sound. It's all electronic drums for me now a days. Someday, when I have more time and a great drum room, I may try again.

Finally, make sure you are mixing using high quality monitors and a properly treated room. It allow you to hear what your recording and mixing.

[albee1952]

I could not say it better than OD said it. But since I am an opinionated ****, I'll add in my 2 cents anyway. I think there are a few things that can help so often, that they would be worthwhile investments anyway. The UA6176 is indeed a great "character' pre and it includes the 1176 compressor(another studio staple that works 99% of the time). Some other "character" preamps you should consider are the Vintech *73 series(i73, x73, 273, 473). They are based on the classic Neve 1073 which appears in almost any upper-class studio, and the API preamps(the API A2D would be a great choice as it has a SPDIF output that you can use to bypass the 002 converters). FWIW, the Vintech 473 is tops on my wish list. Compression on the way in can be nice. While the 1176 is a killer choice, some budget alternatives might be the FMR RNC or the Art Pro VLA II. Just use them gently until you find how they work for your sources. I agree that Radial DI's are among the best available, but lately I have really liked bass thru an Aphex Punch Factory which is a DI with an opto compressor built in. I also second the notion of great monitors(you gotta hear it to fix it, or to know when its right) and acoustic treatments for the room(control room for accurate monitoring, and studio so the room doesn't ruin a good source). Microphones can come from every price point. Right now I am auditioning an MXL V89 and it blows my TLM49 out of the water. Cascade ribbons are so close to a Royer on guitar cabs that I can't justify the x9 price point(even though the Royer is my absolute fav on guitar). I also have a love/hate relationship with acoustic drums and am using a Roland TD10 kit triggering ezdrummer or superior drummer. If the drummer wants to use real cymbals and hat, that works even better with 3 mics and a midi cable.

[BradLyons]

A lot of good information here already..... but I'll second asking a few questions. Selecting a microphone pre-amplifier without factoring in the microphone you have is like jumping out of an airplane without testing for the parachute to work. Chances are it will work, but are you sure it's the right thing to do???

My point is this.... microphones and pre-amps all have THEIR OWN SOUND. Just getting one of each doesn't mean it's the way to go. For example, a U87 direct into the pre on the Digi002 won't sound as good as say a BLUE MOUSE through a Universal Audio 6176. It's about the same price, but a completely different world tonally. I'll argue to the day I die that you must take into account BOTH to come up with "that sound". An AKG C414 through that same 6176 will sound quite good, but run that through say a Focusrite RED series and prepare for something that could rip your ears out. See my point?

So let me ask you this....WHAT microphone(s) are you using right now? And what kind of budget are you trying to be within?

[tommydigiowen]

wow... so much information here....... perhaps it might help if I offer a little more information about myself and current situation.

So the iTunes/MySpace URL I provided is my music.... I do not run a studio; this is for my own personal use & recordings......

I know its asking a lot but if you could review a few of those song samples --- I was basically using some pretty cheap equipment.... Microphone used on all recordings was an MXL9000 Condenser ($200), This was plugged straight into the Digi002 --- I used this for both vocals & acoustic guitars...

Now; my plan is to put a little more money into my second demo --- I was told that the SM7b was a much better mic for vocals (right at $450), and that I desperately needed a better pre-amp verses running straight into the digi002.... I'd say my total budget at this point is right at $1000 - $1500 tops....

So; Yes, I understand that the sky is the limit when deciding on a preamp but I was hoping I could get some suggestions based on the audio files I mentioned in my original post........ I am far from a engineer, just trying to pickup some basic pointers and/or direction on this stuff.

I really, really appreciate you guys taking the time to respond on this.

Tommy

[BradLyons]

When I listen to MP3's or audio on YouTube or MySpace, I always have to remember that we're listening to highly compressed files. But I've listened to them long enough to know how to listen to them. Cool songs, first and foremost. Tonally-speaking they were good.....not great, but certainly not bad either. Listening to the tracks----one possibility that came to my mind would be a BLUE MOUSE or a MOJAVE MA200 with the DAKING MIC PRE ONE. Without getting a pre, either of these mics will give you a big, rich tone that will work incredibly well on your vocals, electric guitar cabs, acoustic guitar, and pretty much anything else. Both of these mics will actually sound very good through the pre's of the 002, so even leaving it there---you're okay, for now. But something like the DAKING will compliment both allowing the warmth of each mic to come through, but the texture and linearity of the high frequencies to shimmer as well. I'm not saying this is the solution----but based on my experience, some suggestions that I think you could go and be completely blown away with.

[tommydigiowen]

Dude, Brad - Thankyou man! I really appreciate the suggestions...

So you're saying that it would be okay to run one of these high-end preamps BACK into the Digi002 preamp?

Okay; So I have taken note of the mics & preamps you have suggested but here's the deal..... I'm a tad tight budgeted so was thinking about renting this time around (both preamps & mics).... I found this place in Austin (local) that has a huge selection.... Could you possibly check their equipment list out and make some suggestions from that angle?

The list is here: http://www.rocknrollrentals.com/recording.html
They also have a ton of mics to choose from: http://www.rocknrollrentals.com/microphone.html

I really appreciate your time Brad.

T

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by tommydigiowen

Dude, Brad - Thankyou man! I really appreciate the suggestions...

So you're saying that it would be okay to run one of these high-end preamps BACK into the Digi002 preamp?

Okay; So I have taken note of the mics & preamps you have suggested but here's the deal..... I'm a tad tight budgeted so was thinking about renting this time around (both preamps & mics).... I found this place in Austin (local) that has a huge selection.... Could you possibly check their equipment list out and make some suggestions from that angle?

The list is here: http://www.rocknrollrentals.com/recording.html
They also have a ton of mics to choose from: http://www.rocknrollrentals.com/microphone.html

I really appreciate your time Brad.

T

Renting is a great way to find out what works best for you. When you try/buy a preamp, do not patch it into the XLR inputs of your 002. Get an XLR-F(fits most preamp outputs) to TRS cable and use inputs 5 thru 8 on the 002, and set the switch on the back to the +4 position.

[BradLyons]

Renting is fine---providing what you rent is what you think you want to purchase and want to verify it is what you want. Otherwise you'll pay all this money in rentals that can NOT be re-couped.

[tommydigiowen]

A million thanks man...... I'm off and running.......

T