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  #1  
Old 06-13-2004, 03:19 AM
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Default 002R power harness

hi there. i think i should share something i experienced last week, when i was doing a week-long live mix tour with my protools system (powerbook, 002R and a presonus lt). this might save a day for some of you. i was doing a FOH mix as well as providing the monitoring for the band, so i would have wanted my system being stable at all times. but it didn't, unfortunately.

at some point (was it tuesday or wednesday, i cannot remember but that is irrelevant) my 002R seemed to lose power every five minutes. luckily during a sound check anyway, i told the band to take a break while i fix the issue, so they went, and i first exchanged the power lines from 16A to 32A because i thought i had insufficient power to feed both the amplifiers and the protools rig. that didn't help, and i began to fear that the power harness was broken at the most critical moment one could imagine. so i boldly opened the 002R:s enclosure (a dozen or so little screws) and looked inside.

now i must say don't try this unless you know what you are doing, in other words, unless you haven't studied electronics, stay away of this! this operation voids the warranty if you do a single mistake. and please, use your brain and unplug the power cord if you open the case. please.

i found out that there are separate digital and analog boards, and a power supply unit. and the infamous power harness cable between the three. the harness feeds power from the power supply unit to both the analog and the digital boards, so it's a kind of a "y-cable". there are plastic connectors in the three ends of the cable, and several metal connectors inside each plastic plug. i thought that while the plastic plugs seem to be firmly in place, the little metal connectors inside might be loose, so i pushed each individual wire to fit tighter inside the plastic plug - notice that i didn't unplug the plastic connectors, so i think my unit still has warranty - and guess what? once i turned the power on, the unit worked perfectly and without a single hiccup for the rest of the week.

so... it might not be a faulty power harness cable after all, but a faulty installation of it. if you are in a desperate situation or cannot afford downtime, this is something you might want to try.

- of course i said to the band that we ran out of power and the issue was fixed by getting more of it. they don't need to know
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Old 06-13-2004, 03:35 AM
tele_player tele_player is offline
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Default Re: 002R power harness

I'd have done the same thing. The point is, a properly designed and built harness will have connectors that don't need any jiggling.

Anyway, the new harness has slightly different crimping on some or all of the cables, so I'm not surprised that jiggling things can get it working again. If you haven't already done it, you should probably contact Digi for the new harness.
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Old 06-13-2004, 04:10 AM
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Default Re: 002R power harness

i have had the power harness cable replaced once, and during last week i had the finnish digi importer send me a replacement harness cable just in case. luckily i didn't have to replace it myself, but the scary point is that the issue still exists with the replacement cables also. it will not go away totally.

if i have such a failure once again, i will void my warranty and SOLDER the wires to the boards. i think that's what digi should have done in the first place - they even put glue on the digital cables (very much like a ide hard drive cable) so they would stay connected no matter how hard abuse the case will get.

but the power harness? plastic connectors, give me a break. one more failure and i will solder the wires, period. i don't care about the warranty if that's what it takes to get the unit reliable.
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Old 06-13-2004, 10:13 AM
tele_player tele_player is offline
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Default Re: 002R power harness

I don't agree that soldering is the correct approach, but it will work. Plastic connectors aren't the problem, something's wrong with the crimping and/or the metal contacts in the connectors. Before soldering to the boards, I'd doublecheck all the crimping, and maybe touch each crimp with a bit of solder.

Abuse caused by transporting and handling a unit doesn't put strain on the connectors. You have to consider mass and acceleration.


Quote:
i have had the power harness cable replaced once, and during last week i had the finnish digi importer send me a replacement harness cable just in case. luckily i didn't have to replace it myself, but the scary point is that the issue still exists with the replacement cables also. it will not go away totally.

if i have such a failure once again, i will void my warranty and SOLDER the wires to the boards. i think that's what digi should have done in the first place - they even put glue on the digital cables (very much like a ide hard drive cable) so they would stay connected no matter how hard abuse the case will get.

but the power harness? plastic connectors, give me a break. one more failure and i will solder the wires, period. i don't care about the warranty if that's what it takes to get the unit reliable.
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Old 06-13-2004, 01:39 PM
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Default Re: 002R power harness

if digi had soldered the power harness cable connectors to the boards, they would have had a lot less trouble with hardware repairs and a lot less negative publicity - however, if for some reason some units have had faulty power supply, they would have had more work in replacing the unit. that's the only reason (easy to replace) to use quick-lok plastic connectors, but as we all have seen that has been a wrong decision. let's face it, even digi makes a mistake every now and then.

i don't know about you guys, but when i do protools work, the #1 feature i NEED is reliablility. and the #2 feature i WANT is reliability. and the #3 feature i HOPE is reliablity. i just cannot afford downtime when i do live FOH mixing, but for now i cannot afford a HD system. i can't believe digi treats us LE users a second-class citizens...

seriously, digi, get a grip. we LE users are as much your customers as the HD users you seem to value more. can't you see that there's a competition going on? do you really wish that the LE customers choose another brand? the HD people don't have a choice but we LE customers have. and as much as i would like to use protools software, this kind of hardware issuse are UNACCEPTABLE and you digi are to blame because you allow no other hardware to be used with protools software (which is ok if your hardware will work perfectly).

ok, end of rant. protools is THE software. i just expected more of the digi hardware; reliability-wise.
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Old 06-13-2004, 07:33 PM
Haigbabe Haigbabe is offline
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Default Re: 002R power harness

Well said JFreak.

Before I bought the 002, I was assured that all problems had been sorted out. Well that turned out to be completly untrue. Why did I need to be lied to by the national Digi rep?

My unit has needed repairs a number of times (and is yet again on one of its two week [minimum!!] trips interstate for another power-harness etc etc!). Mine is a lemon. It sometimes comes back with even more problems (which apparently I just have to put up with!).

When I paid for the unit, all of the money seemed to work just fine. A year later the bank didn't call Digi and say that they'll have to take that money back and see if it could be fixed.

I don't believe Digidesign is hopeful that people like me will add an HD system to the studio. How could they be? I'm sure that if they were on the receiving end of this sort of thing, they would be looking elsewhere too.

Oh, and I don't believe that PT is the best software. Samplitude, Pyramix and SADiE are sometimes or often better imo.

Best regards,

Haigbabe
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Old 06-14-2004, 09:07 AM
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Default Re: 002R power harness

Quote:
Oh, and I don't believe that PT is the best software. Samplitude, Pyramix and SADiE are sometimes or often better imo.
well it's a matter of opinion, but i think protools is the best studio recording / live mixing software out there. i just would wish the hardware would be on par with it on the LE side. i can for now live with the track count and i/o limitations but i cannot live with unreliable hardware.

DIGI: if you want me to shut up, feel free to send me a HD system to replace this unreliable 002R unit. i will stop complaining if that happens
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Old 06-14-2004, 11:25 AM
MoreMeintheMonitors MoreMeintheMonitors is offline
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Default Re: 002R power harness

For what it's worth, I know several people that had this problem and Digi has always taken care of the problem in an extremely timely manner - sending a new cable overnite (and the installation is very simple) or sending a call tag for the unit to be picked up and Digi does the repair with a 48 hour turnaround.

So, while the 002's have definitely been problematic, I don't see how you can say they are treating LE users like 2nd class citizens. They still have the best service in the biz, bar none.

I had a similar issue with a Mackie amp and a 'known' defect on a power supply - guess how long THAT took to get fixed.

4 weeks.

I had a defective Swissonic A/D convertor. You don't even want to know how long that took. Ok, 6 months. Yup.

My friends G5 with the faulty power supply? 2 weeks.

So - it's not just Digi with these problems. As electronics become more and more complicated, there are more opportunities for things to fail. I'm sure it's in Digi's best interest to actually do all they can to fix the issues ASAP, considering how much $$ they lose every time they have to do a repair, ship out a part, etc. I doubt they're doing it intentionally or don't care about taking care of the customer. From what I've seen, they have been very responsive to getting the problems taken care of, moreso than other manufacturers.

<end of sermon>
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Old 06-14-2004, 12:31 PM
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Default Re: 002R power harness

I agree, they're not doing it intentionally. But they screwed up on the harness on the 002, then on the Rack a year later, and it's still not clear they're assembling a reliable harness. This is not the kind of problem that should need to be fixed more than once.
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Old 06-14-2004, 01:57 PM
Blutus Blutus is offline
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Default Re: 002R power harness

Quote:


I had a defective Swissonic A/D convertor. You don't even want to know how long that took. Ok, 6 months. Yup.

<end of sermon>

Yikes ! I have a few Swissonic converters in use... which one do you have and what was the problem ?
I noticed the AD96 to get very warm (not to say hot!)

Thanks !
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