Buy 2010 Westmere Mac Pro Now?

[drumster]

I was browsing the Apple Store today and noticed that the 2.66GHz 12-Core Westmere Mac Pro is being sold for a great price in the Apple Refurbished store ($4249 USD). Still not cheap, but several hundred dollars less than buying the machine brand new. Being that my 2008 Harpertown, 2.8GHz 8-Core Mac Pro is over 3 years old, I was thinking that now might be a good time to sell it and upgrade to a newer model. The Harpertown has been a solid machine, but I'm starting to hit the RTAS ceiling on larger mixes using demanding plugins such as VCC and MPX.

There is a thread over on Gearslutz comparing the Harpertown, 2.8GHz 8-Core against the Westmere, 2.66GHz 12-Core model where the RTAS power of the 12 core Westmere was shown to be more than double that of the Harpertown! While this is obviously quite impressive, there are also numerous threads recommending the 3.33GHz 6-Core machine for use with ProTools. This thread is one of them: http://duc.avid.com/showthread.php?t...ighlight=VEPro. For about $500 less than the refurbished 12 core, the 6-Core with it's faster processor is definitely worth considering as well.

Although I'd like to invest in a new Mac Pro, part of me wonders if I should just hold off and wait for the next release. Rumours are rampant that the new Mac Pros may be released later this month or early next month and will likely include the new Thunderbolt port. The latter could be especially important for the future if Avid decides to decides to utilize Thunderbolt for the next generation of TDM hardware. On the flip side, waiting for the new machines also means that they'll probably come pre-installed with Lion, which is not PT approved and could take several months to be approved.

Just thought I'd see what the opinions were of other users on the forum. Any advice is appreciated!

[crizdee]

Hi,

I would just buy the the most powerful computer you can!, but a known model that works for sure! waiting for the latest and greatest could be a recipe for disaster as they are rarely 100% compatible, plus as you say will likely be Lion only.

I would never buy refurbished! (previously broken and repaired) for the sake of a few hundred dollars more get a new un-blemished computer. to it would be like buying a second hand toilet seat

The westmere 12 core more than double the Harpertown 8 core? i find that a bit hard to believe!!


Chris

[Firechild]

Originally Posted by crizdee

The westmere 12 core more than double the Harpertown 8 core? i find that a bit hard to believe!!
Chris

That is actually correct !
I have an 8 core 3.2 Ghz (2008) and also a Hexa core Mac Pro 2009 @ 3.46 Ghz ( CPU upgraded ) and in this Logic Multicore benchmark test http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...hmarktest.html which is benchmarking CPU power the hexa is 60 percent more powerful than the older 8 core 60 Versus 112 tracks !
In the chart you can also see that a 12 core 2.93 scores 150 tracks in this test , but this is with only 16 tcores as Logic is not supporting more at the moment, so there are 8 cores inactive, waiting for step into the action!

So, a 12 core 2009 / 2010 Mac Pro has more than double CPU power than the 2008 Harpertowns, no doubt about it.
You can check out Geekbench and Cinebench results too, tell you the same story.
The 2009 and 2010 Mac Pro hardware are identical by the way, it is only a newer BIOS / Firmware in the 2010 Mac Pro´s supporting newer / faster CPU´s but there is a way to update the 2009 firmware to 2010, which I did, thats why I could put a hexacore in my 2009 "quad" Mac Pro.

[D'Animation]

Originally Posted by crizdee

Hi,
....
I would never buy refurbished! (previously broken and repaired) for the sake of a few hundred dollars more get a new un-blemished computer. to it would be like buying a second hand toilet seat
....
Chris

Nothing wrong with the refurbished store - I've brought all 3 of my macs from it. Never been a mark on them and because they were returned, they've been tested twice by Apple so I would be of the opinion that the little burn in time they've had would have unearthed any bugs, not caught in testing on a new product. Plus the warranty is exactly the same as a new purchase and Applecare is still available for you. And that ain't a good analogy - a machine worth a few grand is not the same as a toilet seat! I wouldn't say there's any difference in buying a 2nd hand computer over a 2nd hand car?

I keep asking and get varying replies but no one seems to know exactly how well Protools is built to take advantage of multiple cores. Maybe in pts 10 or a RTAS overhaul they could make it a bit clearer or a feature even but for the moment I'm in the 'less cores, faster clock speed' camp. If you think you might use Thunderbolt for drives or possible expansion boxes down the line wait but you'll have to wait a bit longer too for a stable Lion (say a .2 release) and approved for use with pts by Avid. Otherwise buy your Snow Leopard mac now and start making money

[CME]

Or if you can wait until the day the new ones are released, and they still have the one you're looking at, you could possibly save even more. I can't promise that, but I got my MBP the day they released the unibody's off the refurb store for close to half off new.

Also if you wait you can see if the new ones have anything you might be willing to pay extra for, like thunderbolt. So in short. I'd wait just a bit longer and see.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Firechild]

Originally Posted by CME

Or if you can wait until the day the new ones are released, and they still have the one you're looking at, you could possibly save even more. I can't promise that, but I got my MBP the day they released the unibody's off the refurb store for close to half off new.

Also if you wait you can see if the new ones have anything you might be willing to pay extra for, like thunderbolt. So in short. I'd wait just a bit longer and see.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, for sure, wait until August and see what the new ones will bring, if not in your taste, the old ones will be slightly cheaper...

[drumster]

Thanks for the feedback guys! As some have suggested, I think I'll wait to see what happens with the next refresh of the Mac Pro line. August is just around the corner, and I can always pick up one of the current Westmere models for a slightly lower price when the new machines are released.

The only thing I can't get a definitive answer to is whether the current 6 core 3.33GHz model or the 12 Core 2.66GHz would be better for Pro Tools. One has a faster clock speed and the other has more cores, but the opinions on which is better seem to be evenly split. Does anyone know which model is the better investment?

[Barry Johns]

The 2009 2.93 8 core is the best bang out there!

[drumster]

Originally Posted by Barry Johns

The 2009 2.93 8 core is the best bang out there!

That's a good point Barry and from what I can see the 2009 8 core machine still performs as one of the best on Geekbench. Apple is selling it in the refurbished store for a little under $4000, so it's not significantly cheaper than the 12 core 2.66 Westmere.

It appears that I can get the 6 core 3.33 for about $1100 cheaper than the 12 core 2.66 model in the Apple Refurb Store. The question is what's the better route, more cores or faster clock speed? From Firechild's Logic Benchmarking thread over at Gearslutz, it would appear that more cores is better for DAW's than clock speed. Essentially, I'm looking for something that's going to greatly increase my RTAS performance in Pro Tools over the Harpertown. I'm tired of watching the CPU meter all the time when I use plugins like VCC. The spikes are happening far too often, and my hope is to get a machine that alleviates some of that. If that's the 12 core machine, then I'll gladly spend the extra money but if the difference is negligible then I'll save the money and put it towards something else.

[kooz]

That's a great question...more cores at a slower speed or fewer cores at a faster speed, which is better for PT? I don't think one can generalize, because all DAWs are written differently. But I suppose that's what it REALLY gets down to though: can the DAW in question use All the available processing power and RAM any given system has to offer? A complex equation no doubt...any MIT types care to chime in?