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#11
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Re: Can’t use TB-3 frustration... the search for an alternative
Yes and I'm giving you a link to the very best info on DUC on all Windows PC builds, in case you hit issues, and because you asserted it would be a good PC because it's built for gaming. And I've seen you here on DUC only focusing on the interface and interface latency. I've never noticed you say what actual IO buffer size you run with today. You have no-end of choices of USB interfaces, buy one and get going. If RTL is important to you there are lots of old threads here and on the Web about RTL measurements. If you have a near decent interface today, changing to a much more expensive interface with a slightly lower best case RTL won't help you at all unless you are tracking at the very smallest Pro Tools IO buffer size, and even then it's often not that significant (sure might be a few bad cases). And if latency *is* critical... measure stuff starting with LatencyMon, if it's not good you might need to put $$ into a dedicated DAW PC vs say spend money on boutique converters and interfaces.
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#12
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Re: Can’t use TB-3 frustration... the search for an alternative
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#13
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Re: Can’t use TB-3 frustration... the search for an alternative
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Best Mark
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Mac Pro 2010 3.66 GHz six Cores, HD Native, 192 I/O, Avid Dock, Artist Mix and Pro Tools Ultimate Mac mini 2018 i5 64 GB RAM, RME Fireface, Pro Tools 2021, Euphonix MC Control MacBook Air 2020 (M1) 16 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, Zoom U-44 and Pro Tools Ultimate |
#14
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Re: Can’t use TB-3 frustration... the search for an alternative
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The Duet he's coming from has a hardware mixer/monitor controlled by Maestro so I hope he's played with that and familiar with the tradeoffs. And ultimately if latency while tracking is critical, and folks think they can't use hardware monitoring and need to run plugins in the DAW then it's HDX. Avid Carbon is not an option with Windows today, but maybe buy a new Mac and spend ~$4k on Carbon. Or cut over to Pro Tools Ultimate software, a HDX PCIe card and say used HD IO 16x16 box. Maybe the OP can explain why he needs software monitoring needs here. Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 12-27-2021 at 02:03 AM. |
#15
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Re: Can’t use TB-3 frustration... the search for an alternative
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The common source for RTL measurements is this thread on "Gearslutz": https://gearspace.com/board/music-co...data-base.html Maybe you've seen and undersand that. Hopefully you are able to run your own RTL measurements. If you want to focus on latency discussions you should probably be having conversations over there. The Apogee duet (I assume the original Thunderbolt one) lists there at 4.8ms RTL @ 32 samples, Apogee claim 3.6ms RTL @ 32 samples for the Duet 2, that very likely is a Mac number. Would not surprise me if their Windows drivers are worse. You should measure it. So 3.6ms RTL or anything close to that is great. You basically are not going to find anything appreciably lower worth worrying about. If this is the driving issue for you then start looking for stuff that has similar RTL on that benchmark list. I've already pointed you at the RME Fireface UFX+ as a great product. Fantastic company, great support, USB and Thunderbolt. And way more IO, connectivity, likely product lifetime than products you have been talking about. Or look at the RME Fireface UCX II for $1,500, USB 2 interface, it will have low latency (because RME), who cares it's USB 2 it will deliver. But look at those RTL benchmark results and talk a look at any low/similar RTL products to see if they suit you. And if you are focusing "external converter" systems be careful as the digital interface latencies/RTL numbers often do not include any conversion time, so those are useless number for you. As for longevity which you've raised many interface you purchase is going to be out of date in a decade. Anything dependent on drivers or custom software to interface to the computer is very likely to end up killed by end of life software support from the vendor, or by the death of the vendor themselves You can hopefully find stuff that lasts longer if it uses the most commodity interfaces (e.g. USB) and/or also provides standard industry I/O e.g. supports ADAT/SMUX or AES/EBU or MADI in and/or out. Some interfaces offer stand-alone mode so you could flip them to be ADAT/SMUX preamps in future. Some vendors add class compliant USB support in addition to high performance drivers... e.g. done for iOS connectivity, but that's a nice fall back if the vendor disappeared tomorrow you could at least use them with future OS releases in class compliant mode. Cough, again done by RME with some products, but they are not alone. And PCIe card stuff... much of that is dead or only really stuff for the high-end very high for high IO counts (via.....). The transition to network audio is underway, with AVB and Dante becoming more important. But which of those two will take over? MADI, ADAT, AES/EBU, Digilink... will be around for many years but will be interesting to see how hard a competition AVB and Dante give them. If you want forward compatibility options/to reduce risks you might want to include interfaces with some of these connection options, but also maybe just spend less and get simpler stuff and replace it sooner. What is your budget? Do you own nice outboard mic preamps today? Your desire here to find stand alone converters is a bit unusual, especially for somebody coming off a (nice but) low-end interface. If you were a studio wanting to rack a pile of gear, to give many many channels or be more modular then sure, or money's no object and you wanted those Prism logos to pull clients... then sure spend the money. But you are asking about stuff in the ballpark done today with single box modest interfaces. Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 12-27-2021 at 02:26 AM. |
#16
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Re: Can’t use TB-3 frustration... the search for an alternative
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you are right. If there is a need for software monitoring TotalMix does not help. While writing my first answer I was not sure if the OP needs software monitoring. By now I know. In my opinion Carbon with its Hybrid Engine is a very good system to avoid latency during recordings if you need to track with plug-ins. But it is Mac only so far. The more than ten years old DSPs from HDX (also used in Carbon) have this one advantage left: they calculate plug-ins fast enough for monitoring. HDX got the Hybrid Engine as well but is even more expensive. I guess you are on the best route for a Windows user right now: to get the latest and greatest combination of a fast computer combined with an interface with well programmed drivers causing very short latency. Best Mark
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Mac Pro 2010 3.66 GHz six Cores, HD Native, 192 I/O, Avid Dock, Artist Mix and Pro Tools Ultimate Mac mini 2018 i5 64 GB RAM, RME Fireface, Pro Tools 2021, Euphonix MC Control MacBook Air 2020 (M1) 16 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, Zoom U-44 and Pro Tools Ultimate |
#17
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Re: Can’t use TB-3 frustration... the search for an alternative
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I was attracted to standalone conversion because it is free of, to be completely frank, the bull**** (DSP power, unnecessary digital I/O, etc). I just need a unit to perform well. All the bells and whistles are great for marketing but a list of bullet points that run on not-so-great third-party drivers isn’t what I want to spend $3k on. However, I am unfortunately finding that stand-alone converters like the Aurora (n) don’t offer any type of savings, even when choosing a very barebones configuration (8 Line I/O, 16 AES I/O). I can only be left to assume it’s because the conversion is better but from the responses I’ve been met with, it would seem not by much. I did take a look at some of the options you mentioned above. I could make the UCX II work (and the UFX+ is probably an even more future proof option because of MADI), but again - bells and whistles... much less so than with some other products but even still... Quote:
I’ve seen the thread you mentioned and it was very helpful. I found this podcast to be even more informative. Highlighting the role software plays in conjunction with hardware and connectivity: https://dawbench.libsyn.com/episode-...etting-the-bar I only have a single LA-610 at the moment but the plan is to continue to expand my outboard selection. Next with a nice quad pre and likely an additional LA-610. I’m just trying to figure out the best way to get these things in the box. I very much appreciate the help. I’d like to spend =<$3k on some sort of solution. |
#18
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Re: Can’t use TB-3 frustration... the search for an alternative
I use regular Pro Tools on a modern Windows 10 build at buffer 64
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Desktop build: PT 2020.5 / Win 11 / i9-11900K @ 5.1GHz / 64GB / 4TB NVMe PCIe 4 / Gigabyte Z590 Vision D / PreSonus 2626 Laptop: PT 2020.5 / Win 11 / i5-12500H / 16GB / 1TB NVMe / Lenovo IdeaPad 5i Pro / U-PHORIA UMC1820 Ancient/Legacy (still works!): PT 5 & 6 / OS9 & OSX / Mac G4 / DIGI 001 Click for audio/video demo Click for resume |
#19
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Re: Can’t use TB-3 frustration... the search for an alternative
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#20
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Re: Can’t use TB-3 frustration... the search for an alternative
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Pro Tools 2021.10.0 / Windows 10 / AMD Ryzen 9 5900x / ASUS TUF X570-Plus / 32GB DDR4 |
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