Delay Compensation RTAS plug in

[dappmasters]

Hi all, I see this topic has been beat to death in the past from the DUC research I have done. I wanted to make sure I have my facts straight, see if there are any recent developments, and run the possible solutions by all.

My set up
Software: Pro Tools LE 7.0
PC: P4 3.0 prescott cpu, 2 gig ram
RTAS Plug in: AVOX Antares Vocal Toolkit

So delay on my digidesign/bombfactory plug ins dosen't exist but then I purschased Antares Vocal Toolkit. The delay's I am getting from Pro Tools are aweful.

Facts as I understand them, please correct me if I am wrong

In the past Pro Tools only supports Zero Delay Compensation on RTAS plug ins for 2000 samples or less? Has this changed in Pro Tools 7.0?

Increasing the H/W Buffer will not help with Delay Compensation it only allows for larger sample rate play back?

There is a Time Adjuster plug in that can offset this delay but this plug in is only for TDM, I didn't notice it on Digidesign site under plug ins?

I can use nudging to compensate for the delay, I'd like to avoid this if possible, any better solutions?

There's a delay compensation switch on/off?

This is one of the reasons why you should purchase HD and not LE?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[phobia]

Hi!

If I haven't totally lost my memory things are like this:

In the past Pro Tools only supports Zero Delay Compensation on RTAS plug ins for 2000 samples or less? Has this changed in Pro Tools 7.0?

ProTools LE supports "automatic" delay compensation up to the size of the H/W buffer. If the delay is longer than this it must be compensated for. To find out the delay amount check the little digit above the channel fader. Not all plug-ins report correct delay.

Increasing the H/W Buffer will not help with Delay Compensation it only allows for larger sample rate play back?

Plug-In Delay is dependent on the current buffer setting, se above.

There is a Time Adjuster plug in that can offset this delay but this plug in is only for TDM, I didn't notice it on Digidesign site under plug ins?

The Time Adjuster Plug-In (plug-in delay compensation on other tracks) is available to LE users since PT 7.x

I can use nudging to compensate for the delay, I'd like to avoid this if possible, any better solutions?

Yes, use nudging, the Time Ajduster Plug-In (not sure on the name, but it is a plug-in there which purpose is to delay a track), or duplicate and bypass plug-ins.

There's a delay compensation switch on/off?

For PT HD Only:
Choose Options > Delay Compensation.

This is one of the reasons why you should purchase HD and not LE?

I am not sure but LE vs HD in terms of PDC, the difference is the Delay Compensation Engine for both Internal and External processing that is different, along with the "Delay Compensation View" to track/alter these things on each track.

--

My "Any thoughts "

Cheers,
// Joakim W

[dappmasters]

Thanks for the quick responses.

So it sounds like nudging is my best option. I found the a documented path for accurate nudging in the DUC. Does this sound right?

From another DUC thread
I need to locate the delay amount which is the little digit above the channel fader, this is reporting in samples right? Then I take the reported samples, type the samples into the nudge window, hit enter. Select the consolidated track with the hand tool and hit the "-" key on the number keypad.

Where is this nudge window?
Do I need to incorporate my current H/W buffer sample rate it this formula or is that irrelivant?

[tbonechillaxin]

yes, control click on the value until it comes up and it will be in samples, then go into the edit screen and look right above the first audio track, there should be something that says nudge with a value to the right of it, type in the number of samples that you got for the delay value, then select the audio to move and hit either the + or - key and it will move the selected audio track the amount of samples entered in for the nudge value. Since the audio is being delayed, if you choose to move the delayed audio, you would hit the minus key to move the audio back the number of samples delayed. Keep in mind you may have to delete the first part of the audio track to be able to move it backwards.

[Dogcode]

........or you could highlight the track you want to move, select Edit/Shift. A box will open. Type the amount of samples you wish to move the track by, then select forward or backward.

.....Simple..

[dappmasters]

I'm having trouble locating the delay above the channel fader. Where can I find the amount of delay in samples on a track?

[dodo]

mix window - above track name - it will say "vol" in the black box. ctl + click on it until you see "dly". it will be the delay value although PT doesn't always give you the exact delay.

make sure you nudge in the correct direction.

[dappmasters]

THANKS DODO!

[deanguidry]

Here's what I do.

I work in Pro Tools 6.4, on an XP system, with a digi 002R and both digidesign plug-ins, and the following third party plugins: waves native power pack bundle, Waves GTR plugin, as well as Izotope's Ozone 3. All of these third party plugins introduce latency. For example, the Waves Comp-gate introduces 340 samples of latency, which appears on the channel strip box after toggeling from volume to latency. To compensate for this, I use digidesign's Short Delay plugin and create a preset called "latency compensation", for which I set up an opening template with all parameters set to zero and the wet paramenter to 100%. All I have to do is insert the plugin into all other tracks ( the tracks that show either zero (0) latency or less than 340 samples of latency) as the last plugin, convert the samples to milliseconds (340 samples/44.1 = 7.7098 milliseconds), and set the delay parameter to 7.71 milliseconds. Bingo....every track is perfectly phase correlated. Works fine, and you don't have to mess with nudging which is a royal pain in the ass. The delay plugin does not introduce any further latency and is not very CPU intensive.

My experience comes from working on a 48 channel procontrol board with an HD3 TDM system. I used the "Timeadjuster" Plugin in the exact same way. Some of the plugins I used there introduced, in combination, latencies as high as +1000 samples.

This gets real complicated when compensating for submixes. For example, I may have 8 drum tracks submixed to a drum mix channel. Each drum track within the submix must be latency compensated to the highest lateceny sample number within the submix, and then that highest number must be added to the Drum Mix channel latency sample number, and if that combination is the highest number in samples compared to the rest of your mix, all the other channels must be latency compensated to that highest number. The reverse is done if the another channel withing the outside-mix has a higher sample number than the Drum mix.

The only channel that needs no latency compensatiion, is the master channel since it is the last out the sysetem.

[Bob L]

I mean this with the love....

Oy! This is easier than shifting a track or two?