UPGRADE -- to HD Accel or G5 plus 002rack? Advice

[Duardo]

I haven't seen an official announcement from Digidesign, although if you go to the "products" page on their website in the bottom left-hand corner of the screen the Digi001 and Pro Tools 24|Mix are listed under "legacy" products...which seems to be a nice way of saying "discontinued" products...

-Duardo

[stoneinapond]

Originally posted by where02190

I don't believe this first is correct, I've seen no official announcement from Digi of discontinuance, although I'm sure it will come eventually.

It is gone, gone, gone. Just check the Digidesign site. Legacy product. Believe me, it is history.


Originally posted by Garissmo

What is certain is that there is always going to be an inherent delay with RTAS effects on the G5/LE system versus the hardware based effects in the HD systems.

I think you have that reversed. There is no delay produced by RTAS plug-ins. Whereas on a TDM system, all plug-ins introduce anything from a very small amount of delay (a couple of samples) to very large delays (hundreds of samples.)

Perhaps what you are referring to is monitoring latencies between the two systems, which indeed do exist in LE systems, and although technically also do appear in TDM systems, are for all intents and purposes, inaudible in the latter.

[Garissimo]

Originally posted by where02190

I think you have that reversed. There is no delay produced by RTAS plug-ins. Whereas on a TDM system, all plug-ins introduce anything from a very small amount of delay (a couple of samples) to very large delays (hundreds of samples.)

My bad, I didn't word my response carefully enough. I was referring to the delay you experience when you monitor a track with an RTAS plug in. As soon as you enable an RTAS plug-in on a record track, low latency monitor mode goes bye-bye. Trying to sing or play guitar in real time with a rhythym track is virtually impossible with a latency on the monitor output. Hopefully, this isn't an issue with an HD or TDM system.

Furthermore, and I hope this isn't too nit-picky, but to say that RTAS effects have no delay isn't totally accurate. Your host processor can't process audio instantaneously. Altiverb's plugin is an extreme example of this.

[MidnightFlyer]

Hey everyone,

I'm going to be making an upgrade in the studio and was previously thinking of going with a TDM system but then started wondering: If 32 tracks is enough for me (it generally is), would I be better off with a 002 rack and one of the new G5s (once digi supports them)?

I think this is the way a lot of 001 users will eventually go. A G5 and 002R, along with superior A/D and D/A converters. Like you, I can get along fine with 32 tracks.
But I don't see this as being a viable, bug-proof option for at least another year.

[where02190]

According to Digidesign, who I just spoke to, they are still manufacturing the 001, so it is not discontinued.

[Duardo]

Then someone at Digidesign must be confused, because I was told by a Digidesign employee that the 001 had been discontinued...and based on its current status on their website as a legacy product I didn't see any reason to doubt it...

-Duardo

[Joseph Anderson]

From NAMASTE: Today I called digi, told them of my issue, and asked their advice. The guy on the phone, who seemed to really have his act together, told me that in the preliminary tests they are not seeing huge performance gains with G5. In fact, he said Apple seems to have exaggerated the performance boost the computer provides. I realize that digi wants to sell me the more expensive HD system, but he seemed sincere.

Also, in looking at this whole thing I am looking at plug-ins. What plug-ins come with 002 rack? I know that with HD 3 you get a ton of pretty solid plugs. . . . but then again the whole thing costs a LOT more money.

[Milamber]

Joseph,

According Kenn LeGault, Director of Software Engineering at Digidesign, they have "seen some great improvements running Pro Tools on a G5 relative to a G4. The faster/wider memory bus, faster CPU, and dual floating point units make a big difference."

Here's where this quote is from:
Re: Will Digidesign recompile ProTools LE for the G5?

I'll try to answer some specific questions/concerns posted on this thread regarding Pro Tools software running on the new Apple Power Mac G5 computers...

Apple and Digidesign engineering teams have been in close contact regarding G5 & Pro Tools compatibility issues. We were one of the first companies to "beta test" the new G5s, and we provided valuable feedback to Apple regarding compatibility and performance. Apple recognizes that Digidesign hardware/software products "push the limits" of their systems, so we're a good test environment.

Some necessary changes were made to OSX concurrent with the G5 release that unfortunately "broke" compatibility with the shipping versions of Pro Tools software. These OS changes impacted some memory management code in our kernel extensions. We've been hard at work during the past several months to resolve these issues as well as some other minor problems we found during early testing.

I'm happy to report that great progress has been made -- the initial incompatibilites have been resolved, and Pro Tools is currently running quite well on the G5 in our labs. But before we can release new versions of Pro Tools with G5 support, there is some more work to be done...

As you know, Digidesign has several different hardware and software products, and we are an "audio platform" for many 3rd-party plug-ins and applications. We are currently in the middle of exhaustive compatibility tests and performance tuning with the G5 to make sure that Digidesign systems are stable, robust, and high-performance. We've seen some great improvements running Pro Tools on a G5 relative to a G4. The faster/wider memory bus, faster CPU, and dual floating point units make a big difference.

While it's true that the G5 can access more memory on a system-wide basis than the G4 could, each individual application is "limited" to just a 32-bit address space (or 4 GB). Regardless, Pro Tools itself won't really run any better once you've got more than about 512 MB of RAM, except of course if you're running multiple applications at the same time. Having more memory will allow OSX to keep all of your application's data & code "paged in" and will reduce the amount of reads/writes to the disk for virtual memory paging (which can slow down your applications).

Please stay tuned to the announcement areas on the Digidesign web site for late-breaking news on G5 support. We hope to release updates to Pro Tools and Pro Tools LE software in the very near future, and I'm sure you'll be impressed with how Pro Tools performs on the new G5 systems.

Best Regards,
Kenn

--------------------
Kenn LeGault
Director of Software Engineering
Digidesign

I think they should add that quote to the Digidesign G5 Compatibility Information page.


Mark

[Ealsh]

I don't believe this first is correct, I've seen no official announcement from Digi of discontinuance, although I'm sure it will come eventually. If I am wrong, please direct us to an official announcement from Digi.

As for the latter, it is definitely true, the pci card will not work in a G-5.

[/QUOTE]

Man did You understand that digi 001 card got different voltage from pci slots for G5????

From digidesign compatibility wuth G5:

"New Power Mac G5 from Apple

Some Digidesign PCI Cards Cannot be Supported

August, 2003

Apple's new Power Mac G5 computers include a technical change to PCI card support which renders some Digidesign PCI cards incompatible.

The G5's PCI slots accomodate 3.3 volt-powered PCI cards only, compared to the G4's PCI slots which supported mixed voltage cards (5.0 V, 12 V, or 3.3 V). While some of Digidesign's PCI cards are compatible with both 5.0 V or 3.3 V PCI slots, others require 5.0 V-capable PCI slots and will be physically incompatible with Apple's new Power Mac G5.

Note that while the G5 1.8 GHz and dual 2.0 GHz models have PCI-X slots, and the G5 1.6 GHz model has PCI (and not PCI-X) slots, all Power Mac G5s support 3.3 V PCI cards only. MIX Core, MIX Farm, and all Pro Tools|HD cards are 3.3 volt-powered PCI cards which comply with the G5 PCI specifications. In addition to incorrect voltage, 5.0 volt PCI cards will not fit in the PCI slots on any G5 models."

Understood now?

[kmshroom]

Man did You understand that digi 001 card got different voltage from pci slots for G5????

From digidesign compatibility wuth G5:

<snip>

Understood now?

look carefully at what 'where' said. he said that "it is definitely true, the pci card will not work in a G-5." so you misread there, 'ealsh.'

what 'where' was getting at was that Digi hasn't completely dropped support of the 001; as you may know, the latest update of PTLE (6.1.1) still supports it. hell, it even supports the AMIII, which is much older than the 001. so don't expect the 001 to be dropped cold anytime soon. eventually, yes. but not tomorrow, and it certainly hasn't happened yet.

the 001 is discontinued in that Digi is not making them anymore, but support for them is still strong.