Anyone Mix in Logic?

[nostatic]

Originally posted by Syn-g:
Well this will take more time than I have, so I will just hit on a few points. Unfortunately, Logic is so complex that only when you have used it for a while (a long while), will you begin to appreciate the differences between it and Pro Tools or other programs like Digital Performer.
Things still lacking in Logic after years.
1. Sample accurate editing and display in the arrange window.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In v6

2. No way to zoom waveform height...only width in arrange window

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Not sure what you mean. You can click-drag to change the height of any singe track, or change all with the zoom bar on the upper right of the window. Alternatively you can use the zoom tool to move in on a particular region.

3. When it comes to mixing, many things are more difficult including grouping, show and hiding of tracks, re-order of tracks,etc.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">reorder of tracks is trivial...click and drag. Grouping and show his does trail behind PT, but both of these functionalities are in v6.

4. We all know about the latency issues that are a very real problem in certain situations.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm not having any of those problems, but as you say, certain situations that's true.

5. Although getting better, the program is still full of bugs that have been around for years.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I've run into a few on 5.5, but in general I've found the app to be at least or more stable than PT 5.1.1.

I could go on and on but you just have to use the program for a while to see what I mean. Hopefully most of the major problems will be addressed now that Apple is part of the team. If so, Logic has the potential to completely blow PT and DP away. The midi side as I said before is already lightyears ahead of PT. For composers it is a much more useful tool.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I saw v6 at NAMM and was impressed enough to finally make the jump. I still have a number of PT rigs, but for a variety of reasons my first call station is now Logic under OSX. And I actually don't do very much midi, but am using the audioInstruments in Logic more and more because the integration is seamless.

I asked the question because in general there is a lot of FUD tossed around about various applications. I was warned about how Logic was lousy for editing audio. The truth if you go in expecting it to work exactly like PT then yes, it will be frustrating and seem piss poor. But after working in the program for awhile I can do almost everything as well or better than in PT. There are still some things I miss about PT, especially the dead-simple show-hide system. But if I really feel the need to work that way, I'll fire up one of the PT rigs. And I"m waiting for the v6 PT upgrade so we can finally get out of OS9 for good (well, except for Quark).

bottom line is there is no perfect app. PT has some great features, but I think that Logic gets a bad rap in terms of audio editing. It's along the lines of the "midi in PT is useless" comments...

[Raki]

Logic isn't a toy. It's a musical tool, in my opinion!! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[undertone]

Originally posted by Syn-g:

2. No way to zoom waveform height...only width in arrange window

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">A way to only increase the waveform height in the Arrange window (without zooming the track) has been demonstrated as a Logic 6 feature. Btw, so has Hide/View tracks.

[PlugInJunky]

Okay this it...anyone who ranks on Logic is because they don't know how to use it yes it sounds better. Im running a DIGI 001 with ATTO ExpreccPCI SCSI card and 1 9 GIG Cheetah drive and Im doing 48Tracks at 48K and 64Tracks at 44.1K. Plugins are way better then Digi's Plugins and WAVES TDM IS THE SAME AS WAVES VST....Oh and I didn't have to spend 20,000 on TDM system just to get 64 Audio Tracks...and 733Mhz QuickSilver with 1 gig of Ram can open a ridiculous amout of plugins....and the automation on Logic is smoother then protools...ONE WORD---Curves..smooth Curves.....I heard better mixes on 2" and a 8000G then a PTHD3 and 9000J....Its the engineer not the gear.......im done...


--please don't be offended these are my opinions and they really don't mean anything--

[mpayne]

--please don't be offended these are my opinions and they really don't mean anything--

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You offend nobody, oh except a gent by the name of Guitarman2k, and you will be hearing from him very, very soon... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img]

[undertone]

Originally posted by mpayne:
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> --please don't be offended these are my opinions and they really don't mean anything--

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You offend nobody, oh except a gent by the name of Guitarman2k, and you will be hearing from him very, very soon... [img]images/icons/rolleyes.gif[/img] <hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hehe, and also BothMan will soon enter the thread saying that this thread should not exist

[Guitarman2k2]

syn-g said it better than i can.

[themindlab]

I think it's easyer than ever...
you pay for what you got, if a sequencer like Logic costs 800 $ and a Mac costs 1300 $ , it will never compete with a system that costs 15000$, otherwise, none will ever buy such an expensive system when with a fraction of the cost you could get similar results.
I used Logic ( Vst in general ) and I now got a TDM system, the difference it's just amazing, now I can do thing ( talking in terms of sound quality, compressions ect...) that I just dreamed about it with Vst systems.
It's up to what are your need, if your a pro , TDM - HD systems are a must , if your not a pro , then you can relax with Vst.
the more you pay the more you got, it's always been like it, just think that Vst it's a honda civic and a TDM or HD are the porche and the Ferrari.

[Joris de Man]

Although I still think audio editing wise PT beats Logic (even since v6), Logic is pretty killer as a midi+audio sequencer, especially with the new functionality introduced in v6.
One of the major new things is offline bouncing and it's cousin, track freezing which is a valuable resource for freeing up cpu time while retaining your softsynth setup and midipart.

I notice some people mentioning latency as a problem with host based programs such as logic, but this really depends on the soundcard your using.
I recently got a Creamware Powerpulsar card (15 sharc dsp) for roughly the price of a second hand mixcard. Since this card does mixing on it's dsp's, the latency is about as low as PT.
I need to pile on a serious amount of VST plugins on one track to get significant latency.
Ofcourse, when I use the onboard plugins, there's no latency at all.
I can even run Altiverb in NO latency mode (actually a few of them, depending on IR length), something I haven't managed yet in PT.
It's true that latency is only of real concern when you're;
-using live inputs
-using softsynths

In the end, as always, you get what you pay for. You can't expect a host system to perform decently without a proper soundcard. Get one that is priced around the same area as a PT DSP card and you get similar performance.
In my studio I've opted for the best of both worlds: a PT|24 system (3 farms) and a creamware card for the VST stuff. They are routed to eachother by ADAT lightpipe and synced up with a lucid clock.
With logic you can use ASIO(VST) and DAE in tandem and get the benefit of TDM plugins and VST plugs at the same time.
My setup allows me to even route from VST to TDM and back again:)

Perhaps VST got it's bad name because of the many (sometimes bad) freeware plugins produced?
Even so, some of the more interesting sonic developments are happening there, and some of them are even being ported to TDM! (Ohmboyz, for one).

I don't see one program as being better than the other..it's more a case of which one being better equipped to deal with a task..if it's surgical audio editing, go to protools..if it's softsynths and midi..go to logic.


Cheers,

Joris

[PTLance]

Not always true what themindlab said. There is a system out that is a fraction of the cost of Pro Tools, although it only runs on PC's that will give PT a run for it's money big time. It's called the pyramix system by a company called merger: www.merging.com It writes and reads pro tool sessions among many others and it cost about $2000.00