Bug in automation ?

[laori]

Hi PT lovers,

Something odd to me when working with automation in latch mode( with Write on Stop "To End" locked):

A selection is made,

- If I move a fader then stop within the selection, OR waiting transport to reach the end of the selection, then everything's fine: automation is written within the selection.
- BUT doing the same with any bypass on inserts or sends only works if I stop the transport BEFORE it reachs the end of the selection !
If I let the transport go to the end of the selection to stop itself then the Bypass state is written outside the selection, to the end of the project !!!

So two different behaviour (fader Vs Bypass)...

I hope I am clear enough.
Anyone have ever noticed that ?
Is it a normal behaviour or am I missing something ?

PT Ultimate 2023.9
(Same thing happens on win10 PTHD 12.5)

Thx !

[smurfyou]

I don't know if I've ever tried it with a selection. It's used to write parameters to the end of the session not the selection (thats a different mode).

[laori]

"To End" writes till the end of the session if there is no selection and only till the end of the selection if there one.
So usefull !!!

[nednednerb]

It seems you might as well file a bug report...

I got this from "Pro Tools Audio Expert" GPT4 by feeding your question to it.

___
Based on the information extracted from the Pro Tools documentation, let's discuss the expected behavior of the 'latch' automation mode, the 'write to end' behavior, and the implications of using selections versus not using selections.

Latch Automation Mode
In 'Latch' automation mode, once a parameter (such as a fader) is adjusted, it continues to write automation for that parameter until the transport is stopped. This means if you move a fader and then stop, the new automation value is written from the point of adjustment until the transport stops, or until another adjustment is made​​.

Write to End
The 'Write to End' functionality, when engaged with the 'Latch' mode, indicates that upon stopping the transport, the current value of the automated parameter will be written to the end of the track or until the next automation breakpoint. This behavior ensures a consistent parameter value from the point of last adjustment through to the end of the project, unless otherwise altered by further automation​​.

Using Selections vs No Selections
When a selection is made in the timeline:

With Selection: Automation data is written within the bounds of the selected region. If you start and stop transport within this selection, automation writes only within this range. This is consistent for fader moves and other parameter adjustments within the selection​​.
Without Selection: Automation data is written from the point of adjustment until the transport is stopped, or, with 'Write to End' enabled, to the end of the track. This applies broadly to both fader adjustments and bypass states for inserts/sends​​.
Observed Behavior and Expected Norms
Regarding the discrepancy you've noted — fader movements behaving as expected within selections, but bypass states on inserts/sends extending beyond the selection when the transport is allowed to run to the end of the selection — it appears to be an inconsistency. Typically, the expected behavior would be for all automation, whether fader movements or bypass states, to adhere to the boundaries of the selection when 'Write to End' is engaged and a selection is active.

However, the specific behavior of bypass automation writing outside of a selection when transport reaches the end of the selection and stops could suggest a peculiarity in how Pro Tools handles automation for different parameters or perhaps an unintended behavior (bug) within the software.

For a definitive clarification on whether this behavior is by design or a software anomaly, consulting the latest Pro Tools documentation or reaching out to Avid support may provide further insights. Additionally, user forums like the DUC (Avid Pro Tools Users Forum) can be a resource for shared experiences and solutions from the user community.
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[laori]

"I got this from "Pro Tools Audio Expert" GPT4 by feeding your question to it."

I'm impressed by the relevance and clarity of that GPT resume !
How did you managed it to a answer with the knowledge of PTAE ?
Thanks for your reply btw, I defenitly think it's a an old bug.
Long time mixer in theatrical dubbing, I just realize my automation went wrong last week, when mixing with a foreign template of the mix and I wanted to change some Bypasses on sends toi it.
It drives me mad to erase every openned/closed Sends when I just Triggered then On or Off with an selection.

I'd like to report it as a bug but I don't kwon how and where to do it...

I'll have to be carefull now I know this is tricky.
Btw if your not in "to end" then it works, but you have to deselect "to end" just for going to the end of teh selection... Boring !

Please someone, try to replicate and tell !

[tope d]

Originally Posted by laori

"I got this from "Pro Tools Audio Expert" GPT4 by feeding your question to it."

I'm impressed by the relevance and clarity of that GPT resume !
How did you managed it to a answer with the knowledge of PTAE ?
Thanks for your reply btw, I defenitly think it's a an old bug.
Long time mixer in theatrical dubbing, I just realize my automation went wrong last week, when mixing with a foreign template of the mix and I wanted to change some Bypasses on sends toi it.
It drives me mad to erase every openned/closed Sends when I just Triggered then On or Off with an selection.

I'd like to report it as a bug but I don't kwon how and where to do it...

I'll have to be carefull now I know this is tricky.
Btw if your not in "to end" then it works, but you have to deselect "to end" just for going to the end of teh selection... Boring !

Please someone, try to replicate and tell !

Hi laori,

Currently checking on this. Let me get back to you in a bit.

Thank you!

[tope d]

Hi Laori,

Have you already tried 2023.12.1? Can you also PM me your registered Avid Email and iLok ID so we can start up a support case for you?

Thanks!

[smurfyou]

Originally Posted by smurfyou

I don't know if I've ever tried it with a selection. It's used to write parameters to the end of the session not the selection (thats a different mode).

Sorry I had my explanation backwards. Must have been pre-coffee. I usually use this intentionally without a selection to write to the whole session, which is a longstanding "bug". If you don't have a selection that's what happens.


I just tried what you described and got the same result -

Fader move correctly writes to the selection either way.

Insert bypass writes to the selection if you stop before the selection end. If you let it roll it will write to the next breakpoint, or the end of the session if there is no breakpoint.

PT 2023.9

[laori]

Originally Posted by tope d

Hi Laori,

Have you already tried 2023.12.1? Can you also PM me your registered Avid Email and iLok ID so we can start up a support case for you?

Thanks!

I Tope,
It seems that can't send you a PM.
I don't have a personnal IlokID since I'm a freelancer and I don't work at home.
You can reach me here.

I hope that you will be able to report this bug where it is relevant.

Thx!

[tope d]

Originally Posted by laori

I Tope,
It seems that can't send you a PM.
I don't have a personnal IlokID since I'm a freelancer and I don't work at home.
You can reach me here.

I hope that you will be able to report this bug where it is relevant.

Thx!

I was unable to reproduce this on the latest version. Will try on 23.9 and get back to you. Just a note that more than one version of pro tools can be installed in one system as long as it’s supported so you can test