Is Video Satellite LE an alternative to Media Composer?

[Postman]

Hi Gang,

It may be time for me to jump off the Video Satellite (Media Composer) bandwagon for something more sane. Video import times are killing me. With overlapping projects and multiple versions flying in and out of here, I am spending far more time dealing with the Avid than I feel it deserves, and workflow during reconforms can be challenging.

What I want is to copy a client's QuickTime to the playback device, and go to work in PT. No incredibly long imports. For VidSatellite LE, are you all happy with your workflows, and especially with sync and quality of picture? Blackmagic is reliable? What happens with 50 and 59.94fps video? Is there something else I should consider, like Virtual VTR? I already know all about Canopus and Mojo and QT through the computer graphic card. I am not looking to go those directions, been there/done them. I need frame-edge sync'd playback. That is why I am wondering about LE and a Blackmagic card. Cost is not my main concern.

This morning I wanted to import a client's 6 minute 1080/30p movie, delivered as an Apple Pro Res QT movie. To import into a 1080/30p project took 5 hours on my very fast Avid on PC. That is somewhat longer than usual, as I typically import 60 and 90 minutes shows overnight, 7 to 10 hours apiece. I think you see my problem. Import times are considerably faster for DV resolutions, but if I am forced to project lower resolutions then I have to ask myself what is the point of having Media Composer as a satellite? While it chugged away importing that short video this morning, I edited then mixed using a DV version loaded into PT. I was done before the import was done, and the client approved the mix watching a QuickTime window on the second screen. (BTW, that DV verion was exported from QTPro in about 4 minutes.)

Imports that can only be scheduled overnight make fast turnaround sessions impossible. So, I am thinking it is time to find a better solution, if one is sutable to my picky needs.

[JKD99]

Very happy here with VVTR and an Aja Kona LH card running happily on a G5 Dual 2.5

[StefB]

+1 for VVTR & Kona (I have Kona 3=overkill)

And get MXF Quicktime plugin so you can playback MXF files in VVTR
( www.calibratedsoftware.com) cheap!

I NEVER have to transcode or wait for any picture to be ready - some formats have timecode issues and require me to simply open them in Quicktime Pro and save as a reference movie to use in VVTR. (takes 30 seconds)

I even do Video & Audio layback for clients and it has never let me down.
My Video system runs on a Mac 8 core Intel and I feed it reference from an AJA tri-sync box and MMC & MTC.

Stef

[Brent_Sydney]

What is the proportion of avid sequences you receive vs QT movies?

Sync seems great on my system, but so far its only had initial testing prior to the business launch and Im waiting on a delivery with a big bunch of high end HD codec material at diff frame rates to give it a good work out and test it. Sorry I cant shed more light on sync.

Re workflow:
Any QT movie can simply be opened in LE and the decklink card will take care of playing it on confidence monitoring. Im looking forwards to using the prores codecs on my vid sat LE decklink rig - after making sure that my video raid has enough bandwidth for higher end codecs.

However, the beauty of having MC coinstalled, is that I can open the avid sequences when they are given to me, typically they are DNxHD iframe material, so I can export them as "QT ref" movies and AAFs for audio and open them in LE and HD respectively very quickly.
So running vid sat LE and MC, you get the best of both worlds, ability to open QTs instantly, and ability to open Avid sequences, spit out a QT ref almost instantly and open that in LE also displaying it on your decklink output. (HDMI?)

Your MC dongle/auth code should allow you to move your mediacomposer install over to the mac when you buy the LE vid sat rig.

Personally Im a fan of having MC in the audio suite to get my own exports from the project, getting clients to bring their avid sequences to me, saving them export/rendering time.
Also more power to get things like changelists, EDLs, audio conforms etc

That said, if you are rendering those QT's thats all studio time, so hopefully you're billing for it!

Last idea - if youre using a mac based PT rig and XP based vid sat MC rig, do you have Synergy 2 installed? Its a freeware keyboard and mouse sharing tool so your mac kb and mouse can control the pc by simply moving your mouse cursor to the boundary between the screens - like Teleport for mac.
Its a bit fiddly to set up, but easy once youve done it once or twice.
These tools really make the vid sat experience alot tidier and you spend less time with multiple mice and keyboards and shennanigans.

[koo_koo_bonkers]

Uhmm SynergyKM is WWAYYY easier

[mikevarela]

Just an FYI.

You can download Avid DNxHD codecs for quicktime. they work great

[EarHole]

+1 more fore the VVTR & Kona combo. A little set up time required but clients will be floored and editors envious of the projection quality.

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by Postman

Hi Gang,

It may be time for me to jump off the Video Satellite (Media Composer) bandwagon for something more sane. Video import times are killing me. With overlapping projects and multiple versions flying in and out of here, I am spending far more time dealing with the Avid than I feel it deserves, and workflow during reconforms can be challenging.

What I want is to copy a client's QuickTime to the playback device, and go to work in PT. No incredibly long imports. For VidSatellite LE, are you all happy with your workflows, and especially with sync and quality of picture? Blackmagic is reliable? What happens with 50 and 59.94fps video? Is there something else I should consider, like Virtual VTR? I already know all about Canopus and Mojo and QT through the computer graphic card. I am not looking to go those directions, been there/done them. I need frame-edge sync'd playback. That is why I am wondering about LE and a Blackmagic card. Cost is not my main concern.

This morning I wanted to import a client's 6 minute 1080/30p movie, delivered as an Apple Pro Res QT movie. To import into a 1080/30p project took 5 hours on my very fast Avid on PC. That is somewhat longer than usual, as I typically import 60 and 90 minutes shows overnight, 7 to 10 hours apiece. I think you see my problem. Import times are considerably faster for DV resolutions, but if I am forced to project lower resolutions then I have to ask myself what is the point of having Media Composer as a satellite? While it chugged away importing that short video this morning, I edited then mixed using a DV version loaded into PT. I was done before the import was done, and the client approved the mix watching a QuickTime window on the second screen. (BTW, that DV verion was exported from QTPro in about 4 minutes.)

Imports that can only be scheduled overnight make fast turnaround sessions impossible. So, I am thinking it is time to find a better solution, if one is sutable to my picky needs.

Yeah, as far as I know, the only benefits to using Media Composer is if your client is doing their editing in Media Composer. If they are giving you quicktimes then there is no point in using media composer.

For a TV post house or promo house that does video and audio post in the same building, using Satellite link to a Media Composer station can save time since you don't have to make the quicktime to give to the Audio guys. The audio guys just open the same Media Composer project that the video guys were working on over the internal ethernet and it syncs.

But for you I would probably say Satellite LE or one of the other options would be a better choice since it doesn't sound like any of your clients edit in avid, and if they do, they aren't giving you their avid projects to play while you work.

[MIKEROPHONICS]

HI Postman

Wow - that's serious rendering time. I only use composite SD video and it takes my MC4.05 about 10 mins to convert a DV25 QT (from fcp) to mxf for my mojo. export a ref aaf file, reboot into leopard for PT and off I go. I am running SL 10.6.2 and MC 4.05

The HD thing makes me shudder! I will watch and keep an eye out and learn from this post.

I too have considered getting satellite LE when I upgrade my laptop to a MBP - but that bit the dust as my CEDAR DNS ONE had to come first!

cheers

[Postman]

Does anyone here use Pyxis? It uses Decklink hardware and runs as a 9-pin machine. Is there any advantage to this over VVTR?

VVTR and Kona, looks like a contender. Thanks for those thumbs up!

Do you have any experience with 50 or 59.94 framerates? I am currently working on a 50fps job. The two previous jobs were handed to me as 59.94fps. For two of those three jobs, the 2-pop was on the odd frame, so that there was a 1/2 frame error when outputting to 720p at 25 and 29.97 rates. Fixing is easy in Avid, because editing can be done at the higher frame rates. I just slipped the video 1 frame (at 50/59.94) which put the 2-pop where it needed to be. Can you do something similar in VVTR? I know that Satellite LE, like PT, cannot fully handle higher frame rates.

ability to open Avid sequences, spit out a QT ref almost instantly

Ref QTs may be quick, but most the time I need self contained QTs to give to someone else. Renders out to QT take anywhere from minutes to hours here, depending on project settings and other stuff. QTPro is MUCH MUCH faster than Avid, although I admit that MC can do more.

Your MC dongle/auth code should allow you to move your mediacomposer install over to the mac when you buy the LE vid sat rig.

Not any more. Avid is getting rid of their dongle. My box version of MC4 came with software auth only, no dongle. I can still move between computers or boot drives, as long as I remember to de-authorize one version first, with internet connection to the Avid cloud where my authorization is stored. Then I can launch the other one. Bad bad Avid.

the beauty of having MC coinstalled

I'm not doing a MS/PT co-install. Been there before, not going back. It is a world of hurt when an upgrade to MC, or PT, or OS, breaks the compatibility.

Personally Im a fan of having MC in the audio suite to get my own exports from the project, getting clients to bring their avid sequences to me, saving them export/rendering time.
Also more power to get things like changelists, EDLs, audio conforms etc

I agree with the merits of having an editing system nearby. When clients are in other building across town, media exchange can become a real problem. I can open a sequence without media, of course, but cannot do very much with it. My clients are split about 50/50 between MC and FCP, and no one expects me to do those things anyhow, and besides, they have already made changes before I can open up what they just sent.

That said, if you are rendering those QT's thats all studio time, so hopefully you're billing for it!

You're kidding right? Hourly rates are a thing of the past, at least in my experience. If I need a QuickTime for internal use or to give to a subcontractor, it is on MY dime.

Yeah, as far as I know, the only benefits to using Media Composer is if your client is doing their editing in Media Composer. If they are giving you quicktimes then there is no point in using media composer.

Correct. MC is overkill for what I need, which would be okay but in my workflows it is actually getting in the way.

I tried the Synergy thing and have been happier with a KVM on one of my two monitors. I can use the KVM to switch keyboard+mouse along with monitor, but to be honest I don't bother with that. And, no "lost" cursors.

Lastly, let's keep the DNS 1 promos confined to the other thread, okay?