Plugins / Delay Compensation / Timing / Downbeat [PT-263943]

[Fiedler Audio]

Originally Posted by massivekerry

Hi Thomas,

I'm curious. Is this from the Known Issues part of the PT "Read Me" doc, or is there a public-facing PT bug page? That bug isn't listed in the 2023.12 release docs.

I don't know if you can find it there. My info is from the known issues list published with the AAX SDK. It seems that they have another list of bugs there. But it also shows that they know about this problem for a looooong time.

[RobertDorn]

No it's never been listed in the known issues section of the public release notes. And it's also persistent in all versions of pro tools, so wether its artist studio or ultimate. Hope they will finally get this fixed this year because it's too bad that such a comprehensive daw isn't able to delay compensate properly.

[masterplan]

So it was, again, with sadness I realized that the midi clock-ADC debacle still isn't fixed.
Given the addition of Midi plugins in 2024.3, I kind of assumed this would finally be taken care of.
It's been like this forever.
But no.

In case you haven't tried or noticed, take any plugin that uses midi clock (I'm guessing) to produce timing based effects, like Waves Pumper.
When your session grows with delay inducing plugins and/or routings, the timing of these kinds of plugins goes out the window.
In the case of Pumper, all you can do is constantly adjust the setting of the plugins to compensate for the increasing latency.
A terrible and cumbersome way of working that doesn't exist in Logic or Live for instance.
And this is still true on HDX, Hybrid or any playback engine, as far as I can tell.

@Marianna any possibilty this will ever be looked into?

// Peer

[marianna]

Originally Posted by masterplan

So it was, again, with sadness I realized that the midi clock-ADC debacle still isn't fixed.
Given the addition of Midi plugins in 2024.3, I kind of assumed this would finally be taken care of.
It's been like this forever.
But no.

In case you haven't tried or noticed, take any plugin that uses midi clock (I'm guessing) to produce timing based effects, like Waves Pumper.
When your session grows with delay inducing plugins and/or routings, the timing of these kinds of plugins goes out the window.
In the case of Pumper, all you can do is constantly adjust the setting of the plugins to compensate for the increasing latency.
A terrible and cumbersome way of working that doesn't exist in Logic or Live for instance.
And this is still true on HDX, Hybrid or any playback engine, as far as I can tell.

@Marianna any possibilty this will ever be looked into?

// Peer

Hi Peer......

This was before I took over the duc so let me look into the bug and see what the status is and report back.....

Back soon....
Marianna

[masterplan]

Originally Posted by marianna

Hi Peer......

This was before I took over the duc so let me look into the bug and see what the status is and report back.....

Back soon....
Marianna

Lovely!
Thank you!


// Peer

[Franklyn]

The strange thing is that some plug ins are correct compensated.
f.e. shaper box 3 is absolute in time in my tests.

[Fiedler Audio]

Originally Posted by Franklyn

The strange thing is that some plug ins are correct compensated.
f.e. shaper box 3 is absolute in time in my tests.

Nope, it has the same problem. Timing gets out of synch if a latency producing plugin is before Shaperbox. Just tested it with the latest version of Pro Tools.

[RobertDorn]

Originally Posted by marianna

Hi Peer......

This was before I took over the duc so let me look into the bug and see what the status is and report back.....

Back soon....
Marianna

Hi Marianna!

Any news yet? What I experience over here: Cableguys Kickstart2 is running in sync now with Pro Tools 2024.3, but for instance Xfer LFO Tool is not. So it seems it differs per plugin. As for arpeggiated instrument patches (you know, hit one note and the arpeggiator inside the virtual instrument will start playing in sync with the bpm) no matter which third party vendor I check, they all still get out of sync once session delay adds up.

[masterplan]

Originally Posted by marianna

Hi Peer......

This was before I took over the duc so let me look into the bug and see what the status is and report back.....

Back soon....
Marianna

Hi Marianna!

In order to hopefully get to the bottom of this age long crippling bug, I've attached 2 PT sessions, that shows this in it's bare essence.
If you could please forward these to your dev team, it would be great.

These sessions requires 4 simple plugins:
- Air Xpand 2
- Avid Maxim
- Avid Dyn3 Compressor/Limiter
- Waves Pumper

1. The session Midi Beat Latency
Shows what happens if you use a time based plugin.

2. The session Side Chain Latency
Shows what happens if you have a side chain triggering a compressor.

In these sessions, deactivate the tracks "Instrument Latency" and "Aux Latency".
Then you'll hear the Pumper and side chain compressor play in time.
When activated, the pumping effect in out of time.


In conclusion:
If you have a track with any type of latency going to the same output as the VI in question, the Pumper, or the side chain timing, goes out the window.
This goes for HDX, Hybrid Engine and Core.

Link to sessions:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nue0d...7bjd4fnj7&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3agwx...5xpt6gll1&dl=0


Thank you!


// Peer

[marianna]

Originally Posted by masterplan

Hi Marianna!

In order to hopefully get to the bottom of this age long crippling bug, I've attached 2 PT sessions, that shows this in it's bare essence.
If you could please forward these to your dev team, it would be great.

These sessions requires 4 simple plugins:
- Air Xpand 2
- Avid Maxim
- Avid Dyn3 Compressor/Limiter
- Waves Pumper

1. The session Midi Beat Latency
Shows what happens if you use a time based plugin.

2. The session Side Chain Latency
Shows what happens if you have a side chain triggering a compressor.

In these sessions, deactivate the tracks "Instrument Latency" and "Aux Latency".
Then you'll hear the Pumper and side chain compressor play in time.
When activated, the pumping effect in out of time.


In conclusion:
If you have a track with any type of latency going to the same output as the VI in question, the Pumper, or the side chain timing, goes out the window.
This goes for HDX, Hybrid Engine and Core.

Link to sessions:
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/nue0d...7bjd4fnj7&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/3agwx...5xpt6gll1&dl=0

Thank you!

// Peer

Thank you Peers...... excellent info. I conversed with Mark one of our system engineers and it seems that it needs to be looked at again since engineering reported it fixed back in PT-267979 was closed as fixed back in 2020.12.

It will likely need to be reproduced with PT 24.3 and logged as a new bug which will happened and I will scan thru the posts and get all new people reporting it into the system and logged.

Mark is on it.
Marianna