Eleven Rack Impedance and Live Setup help (New Here)

[moff]

We need to clarify something. The XLRs on the back of the 11R are LINE level, not MIC level. Therefore, they are often too hot to go directly to FOH unless you use an adaptor to plug into the FOH console's TRS LINE level input (beware - house soundmen hate repatching their boards ) or the console has a LINE level selector for the XLR input (which is usually not the case). The -20dB pad on a LINE level signal coming into a MIC level input doesn't always pad the signal sufficiently.

The 1/4" outs are INSTRUMENT level, so they're too weak for poweramps or amp FX returns (they want to see LINE level). I've always thought this was a flaw with the 11R - it would be nice if the output levels could be switched to match the device you're plugging into.

I run XLR from the 11R to the XLR in on my K12, with the K12 input set to LINE level. I go to FOH from the 1/4" outs, via a DI box. That way, all levels are properly matched, and I have the added bonus of being able to have the main volume of the 11R control only the XLRs, so I can change my on-stage volume without changing the level sent to the console.

[TieDyedDevil]

Originally Posted by moff

... it would be nice if the output impedance could be switched to match the device you're plugging into.

I think there might be a bit of a misconception here...

In general, active audio outputs - regardless of whether they're "line" or "stompbox" level - have a *low* impedance relative to the inputs they're driving. Pretty much the only time anyone who works with audio worries about "impedance" is when they're matching speakers to power amps.

I think what you're seeking is a way to switch the output *level*. That'd almost certainly involve a hardware design change.



Personally, I've never met a board that couldn't handle the ER's main output levels with just a twist of the input trim knob on the channel strip...

[moff]

Originally Posted by TieDyedDevil

I think there might be a bit of a misconception here...

In general, active audio outputs - regardless of whether they're "line" or "stompbox" level - have a *low* impedance relative to the inputs they're driving. Pretty much the only time anyone who works with audio worries about "impedance" is when they're matching speakers to power amps.

I think what you're seeking is a way to switch the output *level*. That'd almost certainly involve a hardware design change.



Personally, I've never met a board that couldn't handle the ER's main output levels with just a twist of the input trim knob on the channel strip...

Thanks for pointing that out - I meant output levels - don't know where my brain was . Fixed the previous post.

I've seen plenty of consoles - specifically live consoles - that have had separate ins for mic and line level. All of the old industry-standard Soundcrafts (1S/200B/400B), and even the Mackie Onyx, to name a few. In fact, the Onyx at the club I play regularly was the impetus for my research on this, and the reason for my change of setup to its current configuration. Even with the pad trimmed all the way off, the 11R was still too hot for the Onyx's XLR input. Taking the "Amp Out" through a DI was a far better solution, and will work everywhere, not just in places where the board can handle LINE level on the XLR ins.

[TieDyedDevil]

Another workaround - for the boards that can't hande a hot signal - is to carry a couple of inline XLR attenuators and a couple of short (1 or 2 foot) XLR patch cords (or just one of each if you never run stereo to the board).

[moff]

I think line attenuators are only making a simple setup more complicated than it needs to be. Why not stick with convention instead of reinventing the wheel? Not that I'm resistant to change, but after gigging and doing FOH sound for 35+ years, and engineering in studios since the mid - '80s, some methods are "standard" for a reason. DIs are the standard, XLR attenuators are not.

It just makes sense to me to do things the "normal" way - send LINE level signal to your onstage monitor, and take INSTRUMENT level signal from your "Amp Output", send it to FOH via a DI, and you're good to go - anywhere.

[TieDyedDevil]

Good point, moff.