anyone else notice this weird TL Space behavior?

[Ciaran]

Hi,
I don't know if anyone else is using TL Space for creating room environments or not, but here goes. I was stumped as to why I could not coax a signal into the stereo input for TLSpace hard left or right. If I would do it, it appeared to make no real difference to where it came out in the 5.0 output.

Finally, after much experimentation, here are they symptoms.

The TLSPACE L,C,R,Ls,Rs path order on the readout seems to conflict with the L,R,Ls,Rs,C Pro-Control order. No matter what way I re-organize path order on its output bus, it insists on sending the signals to the wrong place.

The test... -
If I hard pan an I/P to the left the resultant signal appears on the L R and Rs channels

If I hard pan an I/P to the right, the resultant signal appears out the C and Ls channels

Even if I create an elaborate bus system to fix the LCRLsRs to LRLsRsC behavior, it still doesn't explain why right panning the I/P has 2 resultant channel outs and the left I/P has 3.

Incidentally, Revibe has the same LCRLsRs path order and behaves beautifully.

Ciaran
www.ciaranhope.com

[Ciaran]

I am posting this info regarding weird behavior I am having with TL Space in my pro-tools sessions.* Digidesign have been kind enough to sit on the phone with me and verify the TL SPACE erroneous behavior on one of their pro-tools rigs, so now it is an official problem with the plugin as opposed to simply being a bug in my own studio.* I don't know if it is something you guys have noticed, but I will try and lay out the behavior as clearly as I can.

The plugins behavior became a serious issue when I was mixing a 5.1 film score and trying to use a surround instance of TL SPACE as a 'room emulator' for the orchestra.*

I created a stereo auxiliary channel and put TLSpace on it.* I used TL SPACE long, with the stereo-5.0 configuration (we've since verified that the problem exists for the Medium and Short options as well).

The Channel I/P was set to a stereo bus(to feed the mono individual instruments to at different pan locations), and I made a 5.0 TL Space Bus for the O/P.

Here is what happens next.

• Sending a mono signal to the mono LT of the stereo i/p, the resultant signal appears on the L R and Rs channels at the 5.0 o/p (reading TLSPACEs o/p meters)
  
• sending a mono signal to the* mono RT of the stereo i/p, the resultant signal now appears out the C and Ls channels!
  
• On the off-chance that it was something to do with TLSPACEs o/ps being LCRLsRs and the bus switching to LRLsRsC, I compared the same path scenario with ReVibe, which has a similar stereo-5.0 i/p to o/p configuration option.* Even though its o/p meters are in the order LCRLsRs, it correctly sends signal to the o/p bus which I set to the LRLsRsC order that I use on Pro-Control, unlike what I am experiencing with TL SPACE.
  
• On the off-chance that this was the issue, I decided to test what would happen if I changed my o/p bus order on the TLSPACE Aux channel to the LCRLsRs that the meters where showing. * No change.... I have verified that no matter what changes are made to the channel order on the output bus TL SPACE is feeding, TL SPACE completely ignores it, and continues to send its o/p to it personally chosen arrangement.

All I can figure out is that the TLSPACE L,C,R,Ls,Rs path order on the readout seems to mildly conflict with the L,R,Ls,Rs,C Pro-Control order.

What bothers me more though, it that ultimately, the error is appearing before the signal even gets to an o/p bus, in the sense that the monitor window of the TLSpace shows the same wrong channeling no matter what the o/p is doing.

So, even if I create an elaborate bus system to fix the LCRLsRs to LRLsRsC behavior, it still doesn't explain why right panning the I/P feeds 2 resultant channel o/ps and panning the i/p left feeds 3.

It is basically impossible to use the TL SPACE plugin as a surround reverb plugin with the room emulation as screwed up as this.* Nothing can be localized in the room, and the emulation is a misrepresentation of the IRs to boot.

I don't know what you might know about these issues, but any feedback on it at all would be fantastic.


Yours in music


Ciaran Hope

www.ciaranhope.com

[roberts]

Open up a 96K session then adjust the decay time and watch Protools stop playing!
Open up any IR in TL Space and then open up the IR in Waves IR-1 or Altiverb. The IR's work in TL Space with a signifficant drop in level.

[Fokke van Saane]

Open up any IR in TL Space and then open up the IR in Waves IR-1 or Altiverb. The IR's work in TL Space with a signifficant drop in level.

That is because Altiverb 4 uses a level correction on unique for every IR that is stored in the resource fork of the SDII files. Since TL space can use AIFF WAV and SDII files and work on both pc and mac it cannot use those level corrections, therefore the levels differ with the same IR if you compare them in Altiverb TL space and/or Waves IR-1.

Fokke van Saane