Need help customizing c24 cables - help?

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by John J.

Next questions...as I continue to map out my C24 / Apogee Symphony i/o, it ends up I will require some additional cabling i/o with the C24.

As Darryl suggested, since the Apogee will completely bypass the C24, if I want to use the C24 internal talkback mic, I will need to connect the C24 cue output to send a mono feed to the Apogee analog input and create a slate track in any Pro Tools project requiring me to talkback to artists' headphones.

I've now mapped that I'll also need stereo returns from my Mac Tower for hearing audio when not using Pro Tools (FCP/iTunes, etc.). Similarly I'll need stereo returns from bell HD receiver when watching satellite TV on the 40" ceiling mounted between the JBL monitors.

For these 2 stereo returns into the C24 should I use the External Stereo in to connect the Mac output and Bell receiver outputs? Since the C24 originally was not sending a master output to my Carver power amp, it ends up the amp can receive the master stereo XLR send from the Apogee Symphony, as well as a stereo 1/4 input from the C24. To feed the amp's 1/4 inch inputs should I use the C24 Control room out? O should I bring these 2 stereo sources into the C24 Submix in section and sent to the amp via Submix out? Thanks again.

- John

As Darryl suggested, since the Apogee will completely bypass the C24, if I want to use the C24 internal talkback mic, I will need to connect the C24 cue output to send a mono feed to the Apogee analog input and create a slate track in any Pro Tools project requiring me to talkback to artists' headphones.

Actually that's a little bit backwards...

You would take your Left and Right cue mix from the Apogee and feed it to the Cue Input Left and the Cue Input Right on the C|24.

Then take the Cue Out Left and the Cue Out Right on the C|24, which will have the talkback mixed in, and connect them to your headphone system.

And you'll be good to go...

[John J.]

Hi Bill,

Makes perfect sense, thanks - but...I should have mentioned...

If I want to create let's say 5 individual headphone cue mixes in a ProTools project for an off-the-floor recording, I was thinking of using 5 stereo outs (10 mono total) coming from the Apogee Symphony into 5 separate headphone amp inputs so as to accommodate individual headphone mixes for each musician. But this bypasses the C|24 and internal talkback again.

Could I bring those 5 Apogee stereo cue mixes into some of the other C24 inputs then route them all to the Cue Out Left and the Cue Out Right on the C|24, so talkback will be mixed in as you suggested, and connect as 1 stereo output to my headphone amp? I would be able to assign a master fader to each cue mix in ProTools and control each headphones master volume like this, since I would not be using individual headphone amp volumes in this configuration. Thanks.

- John

[Drew Mazurek]

Originally Posted by John J.

Could I bring those 5 Apogee stereo cue mixes into some of the other C24 inputs then route them all to the Cue Out Left and the Cue Out Right on the C|24, so talkback will be mixed in as you suggested, and connect as 1 stereo output to my headphone amp? I would be able to assign a master fader to each cue mix in ProTools and control each headphones master volume like this, since I would not be using individual headphone amp volumes in this configuration. Thanks.

- John

But then they wouldn't be 5 mixes anymore.

If you do this a lot, I'd buy an Aviom system. Then the first two inputs would be your basic cue mix (with talkback) and then the rest would be assignable from within PT.

I do this with an SSL Duality and a Neve 88RS daily and it's a great system.

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by John J.

Hi Bill,

Makes perfect sense, thanks - but...I should have mentioned...

If I want to create let's say 5 individual headphone cue mixes in a ProTools project for an off-the-floor recording, I was thinking of using 5 stereo outs (10 mono total) coming from the Apogee Symphony into 5 separate headphone amp inputs so as to accommodate individual headphone mixes for each musician. But this bypasses the C|24 and internal talkback again.

Could I bring those 5 Apogee stereo cue mixes into some of the other C24 inputs then route them all to the Cue Out Left and the Cue Out Right on the C|24, so talkback will be mixed in as you suggested, and connect as 1 stereo output to my headphone amp? I would be able to assign a master fader to each cue mix in ProTools and control each headphones master volume like this, since I would not be using individual headphone amp volumes in this configuration. Thanks.

- John

It might be easier to...

Every headphone mix I've ever done included the drums and the bass and maybe a rhythm instrument. Then everyone also wanted themselves and one other something.

Check the people you've worked with...you'll probably find something similar...

Now it's Friday night and I had a long week, so I'll tell you how I did it and maybe you can improvise around it...

The headphone amps I used had either one or two "master" in's, and you could feed one "master" or another to each headset output. Then, each headphone amp had a separate input jack that would feed only its output jack, and which could be "mixed" with the "master" signal.

I would take the drums and the bass and rhythm instrument and mix them to a bus that would feed one of the headphone amp master busses. Sometimes I would take that bus and add a couple of voices/instruments and feed it to the other headphone amp master bus. I'm going to come back to this in a minute so here's an asterisk to remind you *

Then I would take each persons mic and/or instrument and their other "something" and mix them to a bus and use it to feed the individual input jacks on the headphone amp. Voilà...a separate headphone mix for each singer and/or musician.

* and here's the other asterisk...

(Keep in mind I was doing all of this with an analog mixer, so you might have to juggle things to keep latency under control.)

But you have this drums and bass and rhythm instrument mix...You could first route this mix to a send and bring the signal out and feed it to the C|24's the Cue Input Left and the Cue Input Right. Then bring that signal (plus any talkback) out of the Cue Out Left and the Cue Out Right and feed them back into your converters. The just use this drums and bass and rhythm instrument mix as the base for all of your other mixes.

Hope you can figure this out...let me know if you can't...

[John J.]

Thanks again Bill,

I get exactly your workflow coming from an analog mixer.

To help explain my upcoming workflow, I will be using Pro Tools' capabilities to create individual headphone cue mixes. Here's a short 5 minute example from so many of them on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x87CVbnvVZM

So once I have 4-5-6 individual cue mixes ready in Pro Tools, each of them will be output in stereo on their own stereo buss into the Apogee Symphony. From the Apogee output I can feed 6 individual stereo inputs into my headphone amp (with no C24 talkback capability). This is why I ask, if I send the 6 stereo Apogee headphone cues into "some" C24 analog inputs, is there routing available from the C24 I can feed those 6 stereo inputs to my headphone amp that will ALSO put the onboard C24 talkback in the loop?

- John