Recording Acoustic Instruments tips needed

[Jeff Hodges]

Hi all,

I'm about to start a session recording traditional instruments of the Civil War era for a documentary. Any advise / tips on mic type and placement for the following instruments:

Acoustic Mandolin
Acoustic Fiddle
Acoustic Banjo
Harmonica
Acoustic Guitar (familiar with but would love any feedback)

Thanks,

Jeff

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[Joe Griffin]

There are doubtless engineers here with more music experience than me (I'm more post/efx etc), but I would suggest that whatever you do to mic the individual instruments you also put a mic in front of the ensemble to capture how they balance themselves. I recorded a small Civil War-type combo (snare drum, bass drum, recorders) this way and the sound was nicely balanced.

I also have a bunch of cannon fire and rifle volleys from that session (it was a Civil War re-enactment). Email me if you need some effects for your documentary. [email protected]

[RMD]

When considering a microphone placement scheme for a recording project i usually consider the placement of the players first within the stereo picture and how the acoustic venue will play apart in the final sound.
Does this ensemble perform regularily in concert? how do they sit in performance? Is the performance of the music set in a sonic stereo picture or can you change that?
If I where to implement any stereo technique, right off the bat I would have a balance problem with the banjo and the harmonica, even if the musicians are sensitive to that inbalance and try to compensate. If i applied a stereo technique i would need to place the softer instruments closer to the main pair while the louder ones would be further away. This may help with balance but you may still have a problem with loss of detail in the softer sections while the instruments placed further away will have more ambient room in their pick-up. All the while you must consider that any large variation to the normal seating arrangement may affect their ability to see/communicate with each other. Some musicians might not take your engineering needs very well.
Is your venue a balanced accoustic in terms of frequency and what is the reverb time? If the venue is worthy of a stereo pick-up then I would be apt to try one with a well placed stereo picture and perhaps some spot mics for problem instruments. If the venue is as dead as a doornail, spot mic everyone and mix it in studio.
If this is for film you may find that more flexible in the end anyway if you find you need a bit more of an instrument to shine through as you're mixing the film. The film here is what's important, not the balance of the ensemble. Lots to consider.
If you have a very live venue and you want to capture that quality try a spaced omni setup with perhaps an MS centre placement. You might need it later to build the centre channel. If it's really live try ORTF, it's slightly less live and more accurate, although I would be tempted to spot mic everyone and pickup the hall on a separate two track in a really, really live venue. with civil war music I would be looking for a medium , wood, piano room with moderate reverb. to much msg on this type of music would make the recording less believable. too little blend in the stereo picture would leave it unengaging.

regards,

Robert M. DiVito
Montgomery Sound

[Brent Hahn]

As far as placement goes, if the players are experienced pros, be open to their suggestions.

[Eric Bazilian]

A major consideration is, in fact, whether you are going to be recording these instruments as overdubs or as an ensemble, though, ultimately, it all rests on good recording sense...

Ultimately, it is the quality of the players and their instruments that will set the sonic scene. Great players and instruments will sound better on SM57s than mediocre players/instruments on the most esoteric of Tube/Condenser mics.

Assuming you've got quality players who have honed not only their chops but their tone, you will not go wrong with whatever the most accurate and pleasing-sounding gear you've got available to you. Small diaphragm, large diaphragm, condenser, ribbon....put some up close, put some at a distance, move them around, but, absolutely above all, use your ears.

Look at pictures of The Beatles in their recording sessions...the only mics you'll see there are those sweet old U67s, U47s, 251s, etc., as well as the occasional Coles/STC (depending on the vintage). Use the best you've got the best you know how, right?

All of the above comments are valid...common sense and taste are the only real factors in this, or any recording.

In my own limited experience, however....acoustic guitars tend to work best for me when mic'ed somewhere around the area where the nexk joins the body. Mandolins of the "A-Shape" "F-Hole" variety tend to sound best, mic'ed from about a foot away, banjos, well, do the best you can!!!! Fiddles from above, at least two feet, a nice condenser for "modern", a ribbon (preferably Coles) for "vintage". Harmonica...if you're looking for the "Old Man River" vibe then do it hi-fi, a little distance on a nice condenser, if you're looking for some grit then get the player to cup it in his hand with a Shure Bullett, though a '57 will certainly do in a pinch. Use a funky little tube amp if you're going for Sonny Terry/Brownie McGee.

End of the day, when everyone in the studio and the control room are rocking together and it sounds like it sounds, you're doing the right thing.

Rocket Science it ain't.

Good Luck!!

[PTUser NYC]

You may find that using small diaphragm condensers such as Neumann km184, km84, AKG C451, C460 or Shure SM81 may sound 'better' than using large diaphragm condensers on the stringed instruments.

I'm speaking of a modern sound though, if you are looking for 'authenticity' (whatever that means in a recorded 1860's sound!) then miking the entire ensemble may be the way to go.

If you want that 'bluegrass spank and detail' try the small condensers.

Kyle

[mandomatt]

Here is a prior related post that goes thru details on miking most of the instruments you mentioned:
http://duc.digidesign.com/cgi-bin/ub...c&f=1&t=003540

Any specific questions, c'mon back and I may be able to help. This is the only area I work in.

Matt

[Jeff Hodges]

I forgot to mention the studio has
AKG C414, Neuman TLM103, AT 4033, AT 4031, Octava MK15's, and a few others available.

Thanks for all the tips all.

[Russ M.]

Also try using an Omni, one of my favorite mics is an SM80 (omni version of SM81) at least a foot away. Sometimes it can be a bit too nice sounding so I will be a bit more radical and use an RE16 for more guts. I would realy like to try some Earthworks omnis..
I find with omnis the sound is more natural because there is no proximity effect and the room tone is reproduced more naturaly as well because of the even freq response around the mic.