Current U.S. Music rates? Please advise

[Carl Kolchak]

Hi, I know we all roll our eye's when somebody pops up every now and again asking "How much should I charge for..." to which the response is usually "How much do you feel you're worth".

Well a friend over in the U.S. is trying to steer their clients away from using library music in favour of specifically tailored original compositions, and I'm now being asked to compose some music for the credits and a few stings for an educational / training DVD.

I however have absolutely no clue as to what the going rate for about 3 minutes of music in the U.S. would usually cost the production, and with the current exchange rate being so weighted in my favour (slightly over $2 to the pound at the moment) my quote could easily be double what they'd expect to pay.

On the other hand, if I work on a $1 = £1 basis I'm going to end up short changed, especially after bank commissions. So I was wondering if anyone on here has any insight into what is being paid for original music on the shows their working on.

It's (at the moment, a total of about) 3 minutes of music for an upper end of low / lower end of medium budget educational / training DVD that will be commercially available.

I'm not asking "How much should I charge?" (we'll negotiate that partly based on the response I get here) so much as "What would a U.S. production typically expect to pay?" if that subtle difference makes any sense.

I greatly appreciate any advise you can give.

Many thanks!

[minister]

Of course it is difficult to to say..... it all depends on how big the budget is for the program, is it for sale, is it for internal company use, how many copies do they intend to make, etc....

I do music for PBS, The History Channel, Independent Film, Advertising, High-end Corporate stuff, etc. And they ALL are on a different scale.

That said, a non-broadcast use of a library music is $125 per cut. If it is a piece to be played to the public at tradeshows, the price goes up to $175 per (needle) drop. Once the program is for sale, then the fees change even more, and are only good up to 10,000....

For an educational/training DVD you could probably get anywhere from $300-500 per minute of finished music. I doubt you would get even $1000 per minute with that kind of program. Contrast that with a 30 second National Ad spot where you can get $20,000-30,000!

You can see what the appeal for library music is.

[Carl Kolchak]

Hi Tom,

Thank you very much for your reply, I greatly appreciate your time and insight.

Originally Posted by minister

Once the program is for sale, then the fees change even more, and are only good up to 10,000....

Yes the DVD will be for sale to the public via website and certain retail outlets (I'm not sure which ones at the moment or if that's any of my business). I take it the 10,000 you refer to is units sold or did you mean Dollars?

Originally Posted by minister

For an educational/training DVD you could probably get anywhere from $300-500 per minute of finished music.

That's sort of the ball park I was anticipating - you can see why they would baulk if I quoted that in Sterling.

Originally Posted by minister

You can see what the appeal for library music is.

No kidding, I've seen (though not heard) royalty free tracks from reputable libraries for as little as £15 per track, just ridiculous!

Once again, thanks to Tom and if anybody else cares to weigh in on this, please do.

Cheers!

[minister]

Right. Sorry. 10,000 refers to units sold. The license will for "up too".

Also, libraries will charge based on drops. So even if the running time is 3 minutes, but you place the piece in 4 different places, the library will charge for each instance (or, time you drop the needle.). This is a bargaining chip in your favor.

With Retail DVD's I often find that I can do original music much cheaper and it would be a complete buyout so I always pitch that to the client. Ask your friend in the US to get a quote from a Library.

With non-broadcast you will never compete.

[Carl Kolchak]

Originally Posted by minister

Ask your friend in the US to get a quote from a Library.

With non-broadcast you will never compete.

Cheers! I've already asked them, so they're on the case as we speak.

Out of interest, in that scenario would you consider any elements of the music you have delivered that end up getting used in radio / T.V. spots to advertise the "non-broadcast" product as part of the buyout (i.e. they now own it and can do whatever they please with it, no residuals for you later down the line) or as a separate deal?

Thanks once again Tom.

[minister]

Carl, I suggest you make a deal with them that they are to use this music in this program only, and only to make additional copies of this program and to be distributed only in this way. Any new media use (e.g. TV Spot) or other program is not covered under your agreement with them and as such is subject to a new agreement that shall be fairly and reasonably negotiated dependent upon usage.

UNLESS (and I highly doubt this) they pay you a BIG LUMP SUM to cover a complete buyout for all media.

In essence you are telling them : pay me X POUNDS STERLING for this DVD and for anything else, we will take our shoes off when we get to that bridge.

[Carl Kolchak]

Thanks Tom, I was hoping that would be considered the norm but I'm tentatively testing new waters here, and from a considerable distance - like Churchill said when he paraphrased Wilde, it often feels like "Two nations divided by a common language".

[scottgreiner]

there's this widget online, but I can't really vouch for it's accuracy:

http://www.licensequote.com/FreeLice...12335791146885

As far as the other posts, those numbers seem about right. I've been using the $1000/min for internet stuff for years. Ad stuff is whatever you can negotiate above the $1000/min mark. I've gotten anywhere between $2500 for one spot to $30,000 for two... Depends on the profile of the client and the expenses you'll incur (live orchestra etc...).

[Carl Kolchak]

Thanks Scott, that's a terrifically useful little widget.

I don't think I ever would have stumbled across that by myself. It certainly helps alleviate any feelings of guilt I had brewing over the rates I feel I'm going to have to charge to make it worthwhile (well that and it looks increasingly likely that there will be a couple of other perks that will make the exchange rate worth it from my point of view...).

Cheers!