Clean install - deleting old Library files

[Righty27]

Just spent a few hours cleaning up my new Mac as part of my clean install process, whereby I was still carrying lots of old files/folders that are no longer required/relevant. Ideally, I'm aiming to only install Apple Silicon apps/plug-ins and, whilst I plan to retain backup copies, there's lots of old software that won't be installed at all.

However, I cannot delete the sub-folders within my ~/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins folder - these are Components, Digidesign and VST, out of which I guess that Digidesign shouldn't be required in future.

Not an issue of e.g. space but just wondering why these cannot be deleted, whereas their equivalents in the main Library folder can, for example?

Might be something obvious ... maybe just tired?! :)

[albee1952]

Total guess but maybe disk permissions are not set correctly(restricting what you are able to do)

[Darryl Ramm]

Be careful here. If this is a new Mac how did stuff get onto it that needs to be removed? With any new major upgrade, you are much better off re-installing what you need from the latest installers.

And the odd empty directory scattered in places takes no real space and you never know if some uninstaller or other software might assume it's there so best to just leave stuff alone. Especially under the mess that is ~/Library.

As for why you can't remove stuff, these directories are just macOS directories protected by ACL permissions with "everyone deny delete" set. You can see this by looking at the ACL permissions with ls -lde <directory name>. (edit: sorry I had mistyped the e aka "extended" option as s). If you really really really need to delete them you can change the ACL permissions or just blow it away with sudo rm -rf <directory name>. But you should be questioning why you are going this.

Be careful removing VST/VST3 or even AU plugins from /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/* or ~/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/* even if you do not have any DAW or other audio apps that use these plugins directly. Pro Tools might be using say VST plugins if you specifically use VST host software like BlueCat PatchWork, but also some AAX plugins use direct wrappers for VST plugins, and you need those VST plugins installed for the AAX plugin to work. Some of the plugins obtained directly from AIR Instruments do that for example. Some non-obvious non-DAW audio apps on Mac might install AU plugins since this is all so closely tied to CoreAudio.

And don't mess with /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/HAL these are CoreAudio driver components, either to implement audio routing like ProToolsAudioBridge or part of the new (user space audio drivers) AudioDriverKit software.

Some installers or uninstallers may later barf if you have removed stuff by hand or changed file permissions. It can be better to use an uninstaller to fully remove traces of a plugin if you really want to get rid of it, but not all plugin vendors are great about that either. But running an installer and picking not to install say AU and VST plugins is great if you don't need them, the installer should knows if say an AAX plugin would rely on a VST plugin being installed, etc.

For almost all applications and plugins and libraries you don't get to pick Intel or Apple Silicon native support, they are both built into those files at a low level and you don't mess with that. So again a clean Mac or clean macOS install and just install the minimum needed software is often the best way to go.

[Righty27]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Total guess but maybe disk permissions are not set correctly(restricting what you are able to do)

Thanks Dave - disk permissions looked correct.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

... how did stuff get onto it that needs to be removed?

Cheers Darryl - used Migration/Setup Assistant to transfer my user account from old Macintosh HD (in a drive enclosure) without transferring any applications. Decided on this approach versus recreating the account and transferring data manually, in order to avoid manually setting UIDs/GIDs, which you previously guided me on also. I ran some tests using a separate MacBook Pro and my original account used/allowed uppercase character(s) whereas new accounts did not, so I wasn't convinced that everything would match without resorting to further tweaking.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

As for why you can't remove stuff, these directories are just macOS directories protected by ACL permissions with "everyone deny delete" set. You can see this by looking at the ACL permissions with ls -lde <directory name>. (edit: sorry I had mistyped the e aka "extended" option as s). If you really really really need to delete them you can change the ACL permissions or just blow it away with sudo rm -rf <directory name>. But you should be questioning why you are going this.

I wasn't familiar with ACLs and this would make sense. These three folders (although I was only looking to delete Digidesign, as I doubt that naming would be used anymore) were the only examples I encountered whilst removing everything clearly related to any 3rd-party/application/plugin/VI not installed on the Mac by default, in the knowledge that I do not save my own presets, etc. ... so, the idea is to now install everything afresh. I erred on the side of caution, however on the basis that everything will now be reinstalled, I imagine that any missing folder(s) would be recreated.

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Be careful removing VST/VST3 or even AU plugins from /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/* or ~/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/* even if you do not have any DAW or other audio apps that use these plugins directly. Pro Tools might be using say VST plugins if you specifically use VST host software like BlueCat PatchWork, but also some AAX plugins use direct wrappers for VST plugins, and you need those VST plugins installed for the AAX plugin to work. Some of the plugins obtained directly from AIR Instruments do that for example. Some non-obvious non-DAW audio apps on Mac might install AU plugins since this is all so closely tied to CoreAudio.

I've avoided anything that looks like it's related to the non-'Pro' Apple apps - I'll reinstall the likes of FCPX, MainStage, etc. anyway. My old system did have both BlueCat Patchwork and all the AIR stuff installed, and I deleted their files. My logic being the same i.e. would reinstall (if I could work out how for AIR!)

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

It can be better to use an uninstaller to fully remove traces of a plugin if you really want to get rid of it

Some of my software, and related files, go back to 2009, so using the original developer's uninstaller (not always saved or kept up-to-date) would have added significantly to the task - I have accrued LOTS of software over that time. FWIW, in case it interests anyone in future, I looked into CleanMyMac and similar (which I've always steered clear of). They rely somewhat on logs recorded at the time of installation, in order to identify what to delete - their support didn't clearly answer my questions and I doubted whether this would have been effective in my scenario (where the Library, etc. files have appeared on a new system without the associated apps being installed).

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

For almost all applications and plugins and libraries you don't get to pick Intel or Apple Silicon native support, they are both built into those files at a low level and you don't mess with that. So again a clean Mac or clean macOS install and just install the minimum needed software is often the best way to go.

Understood - I've been using a second Mac during the period where my old iMac (High Sierra) has been out of service and receiving my new Studio (Sonoma - I know!) - this has a typical transitional mix of Intel/Apple Silicon. During that period, I've complied a compatibility spreadsheet and plan to only install the Apple Silicon stuff on the Studio as/when compatible (mostly now) plugins are released.

Thanks for the awesome, detailed advice - I also like to add my detail here in case it helps others in future! :)

[Darryl Ramm]

Great stuff.

I forgot to mention one very nice article on ACLs from Howard Oakley: https://eclecticlight.co/2022/02/16/...sions-and-acls

A nice promotion of Tinker Tool. Oakley posts so many useful deeper Mac articles.

ACL capability can be a bit to learn but it is needed to make modern computer systems really work with usable security/permissions. Windows, Linux, and macOS all support ACLs with similar capabilities/behavior.

[thin ice]

What was said about VST plugins is something I experienced. Omnisphere stopped working when I deleted the VST3 plugin that I assumed Pro Tools wasn't using. A few other instrument plugins were exactly the same.

The frustration of Mac System Data grabbing over 120gb of my drive is what lead led trying to clean things out of Library folders, but you have to be quite careful.

The only thing I ever managed to do safely was delete Time Machine Snapshots to save any space. For some reason they start writing to my system drive, even though I use and external drive for TM.

[JFreak]

That's why clean install (yes, wiping whole hard drive) is recommended every now and then. Especially now when one of your goals is to only install ARM compatible apps and plugs.

[Righty27]

Originally Posted by thin ice

The only thing I ever managed to do safely was delete Time Machine Snapshots to save any space. For some reason they start writing to my system drive, even though I use and external drive for TM.

My understanding is that this is how Time Machine (at least used to) work i.e. local saves in periods between connecting your external drive(s). However, I believe this all changed with APFS.

Picking up + seconding Darryl's recommendation of The Eclectic Light Company, I have learnt and decided to start a new Time Machine set for my new Mac as inheriting my longstanding/full history which commenced pre-APFS (for Time Machine - initially, only HFS was compatible) wasn't viable.

[thin ice]

Originally Posted by Righty27

My understanding is that this is how Time Machine (at least used to) work i.e. local saves in periods between connecting your external drive(s). However, I believe this all changed with APFS.

Picking up + seconding Darryl's recommendation of The Eclectic Light Company, I have learnt and decided to start a new Time Machine set for my new Mac as inheriting my longstanding/full history which commenced pre-APFS (for Time Machine - initially, only HFS was compatible) wasn't viable.

That's interesting. So are you saying that I should leave my Time Machine drive connected permanently; would that stop it writing snapshots?

[Righty27]

... this should explain properly ...

https://eclecticlight.co/2016/01/01/...cal-snapshots/

https://eclecticlight.co/2020/07/29/...and-snapshots/

https://eclecticlight.co/2022/02/15/...ine-snapshots/

Hope that helps!