LE to HD quality difference

[masterduk]

Originally Posted by airon

Looking ahead, I have trouble picturing Digidesign ever pulling off a native version of Protools HD in its current form. ........... The 'Limited Edition' never was made for the benefit of its users, is what many feel.

Stay fuzzy fellas.

actually, the limited edition is, and has always been, a cost-effective means for people who may be just starting out to learn the pro tools software conventions.

that way people can do smaller projects and get prepared to either upgrade or find work in larger facilities that use pro tools hd.

it also keeps people from "defecting".

the limited edition was not intended as a system to build a big studio around. it is an entry level, prosumer product, and they have always provided an upgrade path that was "attractive".

i'm not defending digi or condemning them. its obviously a business model that serves them. but many people feel that its a reasonable deal for the customers also.

people that really dislike all that have many other options available.

i wonder if digi will offer limited edition / "native" versions at all in the future. they may just leave all that to the other companies to fight about, with avid just offering high end stuff.

[JFreak]

Limited Edition does not necessarily mean limited audio quality, some pretty darn good sounding albums have been made with LE software. What it means is limited i/o and limited (zero) dsp power. While I think there may soon be a day when we could live without TDM chips (TC and Eventide, wake up, we need RTAS versions), I still want to have that 64 i/o arsenal.

[masterduk]

Originally Posted by JFreak

Limited Edition does not necessarily mean limited audio quality, some pretty darn good sounding albums have been made with LE software. What it means is limited i/o and limited (zero) dsp power. While I think there may soon be a day when we could live without TDM chips (TC and Eventide, wake up, we need RTAS versions), I still want to have that 64 i/o arsenal.

respectfully, one has to be realistic in this well-worn argument.

the le version does have limited audio quality compared to the hd version. it is intentionally so. for a reason.

none of the le interfaces have the audio quality of a 192 i/o, and, as has been pointed out by hobo shane, pro tools le is actually inexorably tied to the pro tools le interfaces.

i don't see why people feel compelled to argue against reality.

and yeah, some pretty darn good albums have been made in all kinds of ways. that does not change the facts concerning "LE to HD quality difference".

one could also argue that the audio quality of some of those "pretty darn good albums" could have been better.

[danander11]

Originally Posted by masterduk

and, as has been pointed out by hobo shane,

I'm curious, Since it clearly states in the terms of use, "You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this BB to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law.", Why are you still around?

It's one thing to disagree, even to a point of getting heated about it.. but abusive? Quite a few of your posts in this thread are this vitirolic towards one member or another but yet you remain... I guess one would wonder whos favor you have curried...

I personally feel that no matter what you had to say about anything isn't worth listening to because of the way you pass your message.

That's just my $0.02.

[Sean Russell]

Originally Posted by masterduk

actually, the limited edition is, and has always been, a cost-effective means for people who may be just starting out to learn the pro tools software conventions.

that way people can do smaller projects and get prepared to either upgrade or find work in larger facilities that use pro tools hd.

it also keeps people from "defecting".

the limited edition was not intended as a system to build a big studio around. it is an entry level, prosumer product, and they have always provided an upgrade path that was "attractive".

i'm not defending digi or condemning them. its obviously a business model that serves them. but many people feel that its a reasonable deal for the customers also.

people that really dislike all that have many other options available.

i wonder if digi will offer limited edition / "native" versions at all in the future. they may just leave all that to the other companies to fight about, with avid just offering high end stuff.

True. Correct. Absolute. End of Story.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by masterduk

respectfully, one has to be realistic in this well-worn argument.

the le version does have limited audio quality compared to the hd version. it is intentionally so. for a reason.

none of the le interfaces have the audio quality of a 192 i/o, and, as has been pointed out by hobo shane, pro tools le is actually inexorably tied to the pro tools le interfaces.

i don't see why people feel compelled to argue against reality.

and yeah, some pretty darn good albums have been made in all kinds of ways. that does not change the facts concerning "LE to HD quality difference".

one could also argue that the audio quality of some of those "pretty darn good albums" could have been better.

your really having a hard time listening to some of the facts. i use it all the time w/o using the digi interface converters. you can even run a lynx clocked to a big ben if that is what your heart desires with a 00 series interface. you are tied to the hardware for dongle reasons. not conversion.

digi cannot drop the le line or anything else. it is the ONLY thing keeping them above water. the hd sales are not paying their bills. buying an hd system 5 years ago and an occasional software upgrade does not cover their costs. thousands of people running around buying the mbox,maudio line of interfaces/software is what pays the bills lately. on top of that the sharc chips have been discontinued for how long now??? things are about to take a very big turn. if they were selling that many hd systems, the supply of the chips would be long gone! of course they were paying 50$ apiece for them towards the end. pretty nice profit margin, though dont matter if they are not selling.

[ctyelvis]

Originally Posted by BradLyons

Tone,

I'd be curious as to exactly how this test took place and what you were listening to for the test. There are VERY FEW RTAS plugins that are equal to their TDM counterparts in terms of overall tonal quality. In addition the internal mixbus (summing) is significantly different between the two. Of course there is a big difference between the ADC which is a major difference in the quality of the mix (especially) with larger mixes and sessions.

Aside from this....there are numerous significant differences between LE and HD, however you can absolutely achieve incredible results with a PTLE system providing you have the right gear and tools to compliment it. TO THE ORIGINAL POSTER: Are you mixing professionally? Are you tracking bands or is this just for yourself? WHY do you want PTHD? Are you unhappy with your current sound or are you just seeking to improve it.....

Just reading this post...

Wow, some things never change. Same level of BS, just wearing a nicer tie....
Instead of posting a vague statement meant to lure the guy to call you to get a sales pitch, why not list it all out here for him?

[Sean Russell]

Originally Posted by guitardom

. on top of that the sharc chips have been discontinued for how long now??? things are about to take a very big turn. if they were selling that many hd systems, the supply of the chips would be long gone! of course they were paying 50$ apiece for them towards the end. pretty nice profit margin, though dont matter if they are not selling.

ummm, where is that stated? Can you please provide a link or something beyond hearsay?

[maxcarola]

Ok There are obvious differences like the mixer (in HD you get an 48bit mixer in native your mixer is 32 bits) There is a nice article on that around the digidesign site LOL. Also a big difference is Latency. It's a non issue in the HD especially if you use digidesign interfaces like 192. This is very useful if you want to record WITH pluging fx and eq or compression. I do it often, being old and also to preserve my eq tricks ;-).
But there are a number of other more subtle reason: My main one is the delay compensation. That has been a BIG inprovement in pro tools especially if you want to use old "analog" trick like multiple subgroups or tracks. If you don't have the automatic compensation you'll have your phase relationships screwed up and the sound get lost! I used to do it by hands (a boring and also confusing practice)
The TDM plugins sound better and there is less distortion (to my ears) There is almost no risk of artifacts due to overuse of the processors.
And, to my ears, it sounds better. There are a number of plugins available only in TDM for the need of super processing power. A greater number of track count also in recording.
I use a HD3 with a lot of plugins (I love the bomb factory stuff)
Also the mixer sounds a lot better now (especially using the "dithered mixer")
But of course if you feel that your setup sounds good, than it SOUNDS good. The problem arises when it doen't sound good to you. That's the moment to invest more in the tech stuff. Without forgeting that good music will bypass the recording quality. o me the best stuff techically is important to preserve the quality not to create it. In the sense that you don't want to destroy a good performance with a bad recording. With the best stuff it's easier to avoid mistakes, like too much noise or distortion, lack of depth or honky edgy general sound (all caracteristics I tend to associate to the native stuff probably more for the I/O part than the software part).
In my case I'm still working on the idea of Analog summing against PT summing. There are difference but I'm not really sure that one is better than the other. But looks so good on your brochure to have an analog summing amp in your rack!
The best
Max

[masterduk]

Originally Posted by guitardom

your really having a hard time listening to some of the facts.

i don't think so. but maybe because i am always listening to such totally awesome music from my totally awesome pro tools hd system that i listen to while perusing the totally awesome pro tools hd forum that is here expressly for pro tools hd users.

i use it all the time w/o using the digi interface converters. you can even run a lynx clocked to a big ben if that is what your heart desires with a 00 series interface. you are tied to the hardware for dongle reasons. not conversion.

no. no. no. you have it totally wrong.

you are tied to the hardware "for dongle reasons". :)

i, one the other hand, have installed the aforementioned totally awesome, shiny, pro tools hd system, with awesome digi 192 i/o interfaces gleaming in the sun.

ah, yes. i fondly recall the minute i plugged it in. all the hobos in the neighborhood began moving away.

apparently it emits a type of high quality audio that hobos are allergic to.

also, as hobo shan has set forth in his lengthy, illustrated, cross-posting blog, the le system's buffer compensation system requires the use of digidesign le hardware only for its "accuracy" [if any].

digi cannot drop the le line or anything else. it is the ONLY thing keeping them above water. the hd sales are not paying their bills. buying an hd system 5 years ago and an occasional software upgrade does not cover their costs.

are you digidesign's accountant or something? i am not sure i heard you correctly [because of the awesome pro tools hd sounds i am listening to at the moment].

thousands of people running around buying the mbox,maudio line of interfaces/software is what pays the bills lately.

o.k. then thank you for your support!