Composer Tracking

[BTV]

Hey you guys, are most of you( composers) tracking songs straight through, or are you doing them in parts and editing the peices together. Which do you find the most effective and trouble free; with the exception of playing abilities? [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img] What instruments are you beginning with?

[mikemaas]

BTV,

I am a composer but I also use this place as a project studio and produce others as well. I have been recording for many years (both sides of the glass) and have used many different techniques. Straight thru "live" band w-no overdubbing to cut and pasting one song together from many takes and tracks...

There is no right way to do this recording stuff... It depends on a lot of factors. Can the drummer work with a click? Can the guitarist make it all the way through a 7 minute song without a big clinker??? Can you isolate a singer who also playes guitar but has trouble with the vocal parts and will need to sing over the original take..

It all depends on the personel AND the song. That said, I prefer to start with either a guitar (if that's the driving force on the tune) or drum and bass parts. If its the drum & bass then I will have an acoustic guitar or keys and someone laying scratch vocals in another room with everyone on phones and playing "live" to a click track or the drummer. I will then come back and replace the guitar and lay other parts as needed - one at a time. When I have the rhythm parts to the song finished, I then track the "main" vocal late at night, incense, big mojo - (ok, just kidding but do what you can to put the vocalist in the mood - no incense though - makes 'em cough). BGV's after that, then sweeten it with solos and fills as desired...

I have worked with singer-songwriters who need to play and sing the song "live". Then I will take them back through it and have them play along with that to replace the guitar first then come back and sing to that...

Try different things and above all - remember that there is no ONE way to acomplish great art...

Mike Maas
Studio 17

[dkrz]

Hi BTV,

It's kinda like that old question about what comes first, the lyrics or the music. For as many composers that there are in the world there are about as many different methods. The creative process is a very individual and unique thing for every composer.

For me personally, I usually start with a very simple singe note piano line and start developing it from there. Almost every piece of music that I have written though had it's own evolution in a sense. In some cases, the whole piece is laid out as a piano piece before I decide what type of instrumentation and textures I'm looking for. Sometimes the A theme will be completed with all layers finished before even moving to the B theme. The method grows with the piece (for me anyway).

It's almost always different for me and have never really pinned down a "system" or specific work flow when I'm writing.

As far as instruments, I almost always start with a nice piano sample and a cup of black coffee. After that, my level of inspiration usually depends on my first 30 seconds at the keyboard.

Being able to completely focus on literally only the music at hand and thinking in a non "language" kind of realm is what happens to me when I'm really deep into it. If I look at the clock and realize 14 hours has just gone by with absolutely no conscious sense of that time passing by (still amazes me how that happens), I usually end up with something pretty decent.

Not sure if it's the kind of answer you were looking for but I thought I'd take a crack at it.

dk

[samplefreak]

I always start with drums, but we make sure we play along to maintain the right feel, but we never record anything but drums to start with.

If there are sections in the song that have different timing, or parts where there is a slow-down, we turn off the click track when we get to it. Or we record the parts at different tempos seperately and edit them together later. You will be amazed at how SEAMLESSLY one can stick together drum parts; if you cleverly choose the point where the 2 parts meet (ie not in the middle of a loud resounding crash cymbal or something like that!!) and then use judicious cross-fading, it is IMPOSSIBLE to tell that two takes were pieced together. I've even achieved this on guitar solos, and even when they're in the front of the mix, they flow perfectly!!!

[BTV]

Originally posted by mikemaas:
BTV,

I am a composer but I also use this place as a project studio and produce others as well. I have been recording for many years (both sides of the glass) and have used many different techniques. Straight thru "live" band w-no overdubbing to cut and pasting one song together from many takes and tracks...

There is no right way to do this recording stuff... It depends on a lot of factors. Can the drummer work with a click? Can the guitarist make it all the way through a 7 minute song without a big clinker??? Can you isolate a singer who also playes guitar but has trouble with the vocal parts and will need to sing over the original take..

It all depends on the personel AND the song. That said, I prefer to start with either a guitar (if that's the driving force on the tune) or drum and bass parts. If its the drum & bass then I will have an acoustic guitar or keys and someone laying scratch vocals in another room with everyone on phones and playing "live" to a click track or the drummer. I will then come back and replace the guitar and lay other parts as needed - one at a time. When I have the rhythm parts to the song finished, I then track the "main" vocal late at night, incense, big mojo - (ok, just kidding but do what you can to put the vocalist in the mood - no incense though - makes 'em cough). BGV's after that, then sweeten it with solos and fills as desired...

I have worked with singer-songwriters who need to play and sing the song "live". Then I will take them back through it and have them play along with that to replace the guitar first then come back and sing to that...

Try different things and above all - remember that there is no ONE way to acomplish great art...

Mike Maas
Studio 17

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[picksail]

I am, primarily, a composer. Several years ago, I designed a recording studio to function as a compositional tool, although, I am able to earn a living doing almost anything related to music. There was a time in our musical history when the only way to compose was on the piano. This seemed to be a natural progression in executing my ideas/concepts. The studio provides the essential tools to realize music that would otherwise, be unplayable or entirely to costly to produce in the capacity of a live performance. And since I'm the guy who funds every aspect of the music from conception to execution, I have to seek a viable yet economical approach. It is so much easier working this way, because I am now able to produce a tangible representation of the work. In the old days, I would have to try and convey the concept of the song, teach everyone their parts and hope that I can direct the performers to play their parts accurately,with varying degrees of success.

I have just totally disregarded the topic. It appears to have become a PT/audio technology endorsement. Sorry, guys. Didn't mean to subject you to such incoherent babble.

In terms of recording parts within PT, I have several "works in progress' which engender recording various sequential pieces at random times. So what I have to do is, after each additional part is complete and verified to'work', I then butt-splice the parts together to ensure timing correctness. It isn't really, too difficult. I will always begin with a click or drum track.Some think I'm crazy, but It works for me.

[BJ Leiderman]

My fifty cents:

When doing rock or pop, I ALWAYS track the rhythm section playing TOGETHER first...bass, drums and piano or guitar (or both). I have heard countless songs which started with only a guitar or piano where drums and bass were added later...and it sounds like it: loose.

I find that unless the rhythm section tracks together, it's hard to find that "groove". good luck!

BJ Leiderman
[email protected]
http://www.bjleiderman.com

[Chaasm71]

I'm in the process of recording a demo for my band. I recorded the drums, keys and bass first (we are a 7 piece band). I mic'd the drums and DI'd the bass and piano. I also had the singer sing a scratch track along with the band, and had everyone in the same room wearing headphones. The result was great: We got a really live feel to the session (which is what we want - the demo will be used to sell our band to local clubs) and no instrument cross talk (since only the drums were mic'd and the vocalist was really just giving the performers timing cues).

This weekend, we'll be adding sax, vocals and vocal harmonies, harmonica and guitar plus any key board solos. For one song, we'll be adding my guitar part while the harmonica player adds his, again to try and capture that 'live' feeling of interaction. Although my band is recording cover songs for this demo, I still think as a general approach, it makes sense to try and simultaneously record those instruments which you want to interact with eachother.

That's my take.

Charlie.