Pro Tools freezes when creating Fades, analyzing EA, or consolidating clips [SOLVED]

[Beaubien7]

Hey Forum-goers I am in need of some help.

Some general background information, I am a student attending a Post-Secondary recording program and I share my work among 3 different systems currently.

As of around a week and a half ago my workflow has come to a halt, these are my issues: Fade shortcut (command + F) causes my sessions to freeze and stop responding. Elastic audio, the wave in my clip will turn grey and it will never analyze the date (I have left it open, analyzing, for close to 30 minutes and it never completes). A new one I discovered is that I cannot consolidate clips, that now freezes my system as well. Exporting and importing audio is now giving me grief as well, including more freezing and crashing.

These are many simple things that should work without a doubt. I am currently doing the editing on a 2014 Macbook Pro with 8GB of Ram, should be able to handle the workload without a doubt.

I have tried a couple times to delete all of the Avid/Pro Tools/Digidesign files on my computer and then perform a clean install. The first time I tried that my functions returned and it worked flawlessly until I tried to export my audio to a different session and it started acting up again. Upon retrying the reinstall, the issues have persisted and I don't know what to do. My Prof. at school is unsure on how I can resolve this issue as well.

Hopefully I have covered all the bases here and someone out there can help me out. I have recently gotten a couple new projects that I need to work on, from just simple editing to the full shebang of an EP, and it would be nice if the software would work the way I need it to. I am sure many can relate, my workflow is suffering and I am losing the drive I need as I keep trying to fix this...

I want to try and get past this before these issues "spread" (if that's a thing) and make other functions more difficult... Apologies for the novel here, just wanted to get it all out.

Thanks, hopefully you have some insight.
Jordam

[Darryl Ramm]

8GB of RAM is a starting point.

You need to start at the "Help us help you...." Link up top of this web page and try to provide more specifics...

Like what exact version of Pro Tools, what interface and interface driver version?

What exact Mac? Date/model code or model number, CPU and what model/spec disk drives are installed. The System information utility will tell you all that and more. On ehich of those drive is the audio/session files? VI samples?

When you say crash, what crashes with what *exact* message?

And importantly have you done all the recommended systems optimization? every last one?

What standard trouble shooting steps have you tried?
Trash prefs?
Is this isolated to specific sessions?
Are all third party plugibs installed on the system up to date?
What happens when you open the session with plugins defeated (hold down Shift when you File>Open the session) does any of this behavior happen?

[Beaubien7]

Computer Information:
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro11,1
Processor Name: Intel Core i5
Processor Speed: 2.6 GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 2
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 3 MB
Memory: 8 GB

I bought this computer last august. It was made in 2014.

Pro Tools Version 11.3.0
Drive Project is on: WD My Passport Ultra 2TB - Format: MS-DOS (FAT32)

Crash Message - to specify, it doesn't actually crash. It gives me the loading: spinning colour wheel, but it never stops spinning [ program stops responding]

For Trouble shooting steps: I have tried on different sessions and three different computers including a 2011 Mac Pro, and I have tried re-installing Pro Tools 11 multiple times.

This has happened on all the sessions I have tried, frankly I am nervous about trying previously finished sessions because I don't want to introduce this issue to places it has already worked...

On the computer I am currently using the only extra plugins I have are the AIR plugins and they are current. Also, in the session I am trying to edit, there are no plugins loaded yet so the defeated start shouldn't make a difference.

I am currently using no interfaces as I am trying to keep it simple and see if it works. All I have currently attached to my Macbook Pro is My external Hardrive, my power charger, my iLok and my headphones.

I have just tried these instructions:

Pro Tools Preferences
This procedure will reset Pro Tools preferences to a default state. Try this to correct odd or erratic behavior in the application:

From the Finder, click on the 'Go' menu at the top of your screen.
Press and hold the Option key on your keyboard and choose 'Library'.
Go to the Preferences folder.
Go to the Avid folder.
Go to the Pro Tools folder.
Delete all files in this folder:
AvidListFile.txt
DSIPrefs
InstalledAAXPlugins
Last Used.pio
Pro Tools Prefs
updater.properties

But that didn't work... And I have also tried repairing the disk permissions.

Let me know if I missed something...

Thanks

[Darryl Ramm]

.... Well keep going, did you exclude plugins as an issue? [edit: any plugin installed in Pro Tools has the possibility of causing problems, not just the ones instantiated in a session. So go ahead and try opening a session to defeat plugins all as one of your troubleshooting steps..... It's even more powerful to just remove all .aax plugins from the plugin folder... Pro Tools 11 will automagically put the default ones back when it starts. That there are no third party plugins installed is good to know, but you should still test. Golden rule of Pro Tools troubleshooting is *always* suspect plugins]

And is the MacBook Pro now fully optimized? Every last thing done? WiFi disabled, Bluetooth disabled, sleep/suspend disabled, etc, etc. every last thing done that you were supposed to do when you installed Pro Tools,.. And that your school should have taught you, warned you about, etc.

FAT-32 why the hell are you trying to work on FAT-32? You should be using a HFS+ not a FAT-32 filesystem. Pro Tools audio drives are supposed to be 7,200 PRM or faster, that is a 5,400 RPM Caviar Green based drive known to be toxic to Pro Tools. Is this causing your problem? Nobody can guess, but you really should get rid of that drive and get one that meets the system requirements for Pro Tools. The SSD internal drive on your MacBook Pro Retina is much faster than this silly external disk, so first step to exclude that disk and FAT-32 is to copy the session Folder (and all linked audio files) off the external drive onto the internal SSD and just try running it from there.

Which school are you at? Why have they not started by helping ensure you are on a well configured and properly setup system and why are they not helping you solve this problem? Most folks here would also not recommend a dual-core i5 for Pro Tools, but YMMV depending on plugin and VI needs.

My frustration is not with you, but if a school is supposed to be teaching you stuff they seem to be failing some basic stuff.

[musicman691]

In addition to what Darryl wrote: you say the session are shared amongst three systems. Are they all set up the same? What system did you start the session on if not your one and how was that set up? What's the system drive on your MBP? Are any of these systems running Windows? PT shouldn't care whether you're running Windows or OSX but that fat32 drive may be the culprit in this. Try bringing the session into your MBP and run it from there instead of the external drive. That will at least tell you if your basic system is okay.

Not to be snide but how did you come by the system you have? Your own research or is this something your school suggested? Reason I ask is your experience with PT will be less than optimal due to the small screen size (13 inch) and that i5 cpu. And unfortunately the MBP you have (Retina model) has soldered in ram and can't be changed by the end user.

[Beaubien7]

It is now working. Hopefully it is working for good.

I optimized my Computer and followed all the steps, I repaired my disk and I reinstalled Pro Tools 11. I have also moved my session off of the External HD I was using. I am not entirely sure which steps have solved my problem but from your (Darryl's) comments it make sense that it would be that drive considering each time I have tried on a different computer it has been connected with the Drive.

I am only using this Macbook Pro until the summer (and for mobile needs in the future), I will be upgrading to an iMac for my main editing and tracking needs.

Do you have any recommendations for an external drive to use? (I have a 3TB Lacie Thunderbolt drive as well, but it is large and annoying to lug around so something more compact would be ideal.)

Thanks for the help. Hoping it stays fixed.

[Darryl Ramm]

Very cool, it's often the case that you may never know what fixed the problem. But when you run into a problem you just want to start by redoing/checking every optimization, check for anything not up to spec, always suspect plugins etc. Once you do all that and get things stable you can often backing off some of the inconvenient optimizations.

With your new iMac you want...

A 27" screen

Quad core i7 processor

16GB or more memory. Current 27" iMax have easier to upgrade memory. Check whatever you end up buying has user upgradable D-RAMM, if they go to soldering on D-RAMM, then you will probably want to purchase a larger memory config.

The iMac can be configured stupidly fast internal PCIe based SSDs, the same technology as in your MacBook Pro Retina. You want the largest on of those you can afford (since AFAIK there are currently no third party compatible upgrades, and any upgrade is a PITA to open the iMac). Do *not* order the fusion drive, they are a bad idea and suspected of causing problems in Pro Tools and other DAWs. And while you can split the fusion drives into a HDD and SSD, the SSD is only 128GB. There are reasons to order the Fusion drive, but that is mostly for geeks who want to then crack open the iMac and replace the HDD part of the fusion drive with a SATA SSD. Not something for the faint of heart.

You have a wide variety of external storage you can use on the iMac (and your MacBook Pro). I see no point in buying slow HDD technology today for anything but backups/archives or very large video storage.

There are very good options for SSD drives. My usual recommendations are for Samsung 850 Evo or 850 Pro SATA SSD drives... but you need to install those in a Thunderbolt and/or USB3 enclosure. Or look at Lacie's external SSD drives (the Little Big Disk 2 is a stunningly fast consumer drive that uses PCIe flash SSD but is >$1k for 1TB, their rugged SSD range uses SATA SSD and is more affordable). Recently Samsung has release the "T1" a compact USB3 external SSD that is based on their great 850 Evo technology. If you end up needing lots of strage, I'd prefer to see say multiple Samsung 850 drives stacked in a nice thunderbolt box with cooling fans etc. (make sure any mufti-drive boxes are JBOD/software RAID only (but don't use software RAID)... some of those boxes that support hardware RAID/RAID 5 can have problems even when not using RAID.. users on DUC have had that issue). For any Thunderbolt box check carefully whether it supports booting and ideally you want to get Thunderbolt 2 boxes only, and ideally with dual thunderbolt ports for easy daisy chaining. When you get to settign up an SSD there are some things worth doing properly, I've posted on DUC many times about checking firmware versions, overprovisoning and using TRIM enabler (for non-Apple branded SSDs).

What you should get depends totally on what you need... what capacity, what performance (e.g. track count and sample rate, most users here are fine with a good SATA based SSD) , whether you can just run sessions on the internal SSD (I'd start by trying that even if sessions then get moved elsewhere to save space). How much space is needed for sample libraries, whether the drive needs to be easily portable (=small and bus powered). Whether you need to interchange the drive between other Macs or PCs etc. And don't forget the need for several external drives to do backups to... HDDs are great for that.. but even for that get 7,200 RPM drives. Make sure you are at least doing image backups with Carbon Copy Cloner as well as maybe using time machine to backup user files.

---

The first thing with another portable external drive is I would just try to avoid using one. If you can run sessions off the internal very fast PCie SSD then just do that. I know that Avid recommends a separate dedicated audio/session drive, but Avid's recommendations just have not kept up with current PCIe SSD technology. If you run out of space and need more portable storage a good option is the Lacie Rugged Thunderbolt/SSD (e.g. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00LF87NBK) or the Samsung T1 (USB3 only but I doubt you will notice the difference, especially if you have say mostly use this for samples and session backup space, its very compact).

[Beaubien7]

Thank you for all your help. I have .pdf'd your post here as well to keep your suggestions for buying the new iMac and external drives.

I really appreciate the help here, thanks a ton. Once again my workflow can return to the smoothness it desires

[musicman691]

Originally Posted by Beaubien7

It is now working. Hopefully it is working for good.

I optimized my Computer and followed all the steps, I repaired my disk and I reinstalled Pro Tools 11. I have also moved my session off of the External HD I was using. I am not entirely sure which steps have solved my problem but from your (Darryl's) comments it make sense that it would be that drive considering each time I have tried on a different computer it has been connected with the Drive.

I am only using this Macbook Pro until the summer (and for mobile needs in the future), I will be upgrading to an iMac for my main editing and tracking needs.

Do you have any recommendations for an external drive to use? (I have a 3TB Lacie Thunderbolt drive as well, but it is large and annoying to lug around so something more compact would be ideal.)

Thanks for the help. Hoping it stays fixed.

If you're buying an iMac the physical size of your external drive don't mean anything. You're surely not going portable anytime with a desktop computer which the iMac is. I love LaCie drives - never had an issue with them. Holding onto the MBP is a good thing; with VEPro 5 and an Ethernet cable it could make for a good slave computer.

As to the iMac - get the 27 inch (you can add your own ram as you never want to buy Apple ram - too expensive) and NO Fusion drive. They are the death of PT. Get the biggest ssd system drive you can afford. I would also suggest getting the long wire keyboard as that has the keypad and you won't run out of battery power like you do if you forget to shut the keyboard down. Just be aware that the USB cable on that keyboard is short but usable. Also know that you'll be getting USB3 ports on the new machine and you may have issues with the iLok2 not working (several people have). Get a powered hub and plug the iLok into that (or you could plug the iLok into one of the USB ports on the wired keyboard).

[mesaone]

Originally Posted by musicman691

Get a powered hub and plug the iLok into that (or you could plug the iLok into one of the USB ports on the wired keyboard).

Bus-powered hubs work fine for iLok. My mobile rig has a cheapo hub with no AC adapter (I forget the brand, I wanna say Sabrent) and it runs an iLok2, USB thumb drive, and a MIDI controller with no issue.