recommended duplicates on drums?

[chal7ds]

Hey All,

I'm still kinda newbie to PT and i was wondering what the industry standard or recommendation
is on doubling up tracks for your drum track? should you only have two going? three? (i'm talking in context for a rock song i guess..just a standard metal or rock beat...)

And how about guitars? i've been doing 3 mono tracks (so two extra on top of the original) is this a good practice? i've been doing 3 on the bass too...

just wonderin what everyone else methods are...

any suggestions greatly appreciated...

[mkosacek]

I don't usually double drum tracks, but often bus them to an effect (reverb, compressor, limiter, etc) then mix that with the original.

Mike

[AlexLakis]

I'm still kinda newbie to PT and i was wondering what the industry standard or recommendation
is on doubling up tracks for your drum track? should you only have two going? three? (i'm talking in context for a rock song i guess..just a standard metal or rock beat...)

One.

And how about guitars? i've been doing 3 mono tracks (so two extra on top of the original) is this a good practice?

One.

i've been doing 3 on the bass too...

One.

any suggestions greatly appreciated...

One.

[chal7ds]

are you guys joking? how do these professional bands sound so thick and sonic then? cuz i've recorded with 'one' on each..and it sounds like a little toy band playing in a garage. got to at least have double i'd think... ?!? unless you're just mic'ing them really well..

[TheLP]

are you guys joking? how do these professional bands sound so thick and sonic then? cuz i've recorded with 'one' on each..and it sounds like a little toy band playing in a garage. got to at least have double i'd think... ?!? unless you're just mic'ing them really well..

It really depends on the song and the sound you're trying to get.

Bass - I always only use one bass track. To me, there is really no point in doubling the bass track (unless you want it to be louder and give off a bigger vibe, in which case you can duplicate it, and pan each track).

Guitar - To get a bigger sound (in choruses with distortion and what not) try duplicating the same guitar part, and nudging one of the tracks a 64th note triplet over. This should give you that bigger sound.

Drums - Unless you're trying to make intricate parts with drum machines, you generally do not (at least I don't) duplicate drum tracks. If you want them to be louder, you can duplicate the track, and pan it to taste.

[spkguitar]

unless you're just mic'ing them really well..

Give that man a prize.

Mixing them properly also helps...
(as does great sounding drums in the first place)

[chal7ds]

what about initial levels? Should they go up just before they hit the red level? or should they be halfway? or should they be just popping up a little bit? what's the practice goin' around on this? (for a rock track)

[Shan]

what about initial levels? Should they go up just before they hit the red level? or should they be halfway? or should they be just popping up a little bit? what's the practice goin' around on this? (for a rock track)

Educate yourself here.

Shane

[Shan]

...recommendation
is on doubling up tracks for your drum track? should you only have two going? three? (i'm talking in context for a rock song i guess..just a standard metal or rock beat...)

Sometimes layered samples are added to the original kit. Parallel compression. A pretty big subject here depending what you're after.

And how about guitars? i've been doing 3 mono tracks (so two extra on top of the original) is this a good practice?

Double tracked, Quadruple tracked, Multiple amps mic'd up. Tons of things can be done here. Really depends on what you're after. This one is another big subject.

i've been doing 3 on the bass too...

One. But sometimes it's common to take a D.I. signal and a mic signal from a bass amp.

Shane

[Naagzh]

The "thick" sound you refer to might also be the judicious use of reverbs and delays. The Charles Dye Hard Disk Life series is very enlightening.

As for drums, parallel compression is used to give that beefiness to rock drums, while preserving the transients of the drum tracks. Also, it's not uncommon to have two reverbs, one for snare and one for toms (maybe a third for cymbals). But perhaps it helps the most to have a suitible room to record them in, especially if you've tracked room or ambient mics.

For guitars, the thickness could be two or more amps blended together, or it could be the guitarist playing the part twice, or both. The doubling creates a chorus effect (more than one "voice" of the same instrument). The subtle differences between tracks give the impression of a "bigger" sound. This can also be done by duplicating the original and nudging it (as per TheLP suggestion). It also helps to have reverbs and delays here, too, and a little of these goes a long way.

Use an EQ to scoop out some of the mud (around 350 Hz) from some tracks (start with snare and bass drum), and see if that alleviates your "garage band" problem. Sometimes a distorted guitar can benefit from a small cut at around 800 Hz, but be careful: lots of character in a guitar track lies in its midrange.

Watch for phasing! Getting two tracks to cooperate together requires that they be in phase. When two tracks are out of phase, you'll notice a loss of stereo field (if two tracks are panned wide, they'll get more narrow) and a loss in the low frequencies. Use the free 1-band EQ which has a phase invert button on it to check it out.