Control|24 and ProControl with Pro Tools 11?

[coolbass]

Originally Posted by Jonathan Gordon

I was a very loyal user for a long time, but these latest developments make me feel like Avid is out of touch with the day to day reality of the guys who use their systems to make a living.

I must say that I sympatize with this, very much so.

[bcwiz]

Originally Posted by Shan

The source code would have to be recompiled.

Shane

Still don't have a clear answer if this is a relatively straight forward task.
It's not a "can't be done" thing.
What is technically required to get this done and how long would it take.
The folks who know the answer have not been heard here. No marketing mumbo jumbo, no guessing, no speculating just the facts.

[CME]

I've been reading this for a while. Even posted way back. Anyways, to me this is one of the more important issues in whether or not I upgrade to PT11. And I don't even own one of the controllers.

Avid has said they're wanting to change and listen to their customers. But so far it seems all is the same as it was. I was bit by the CPTK issue. That rocked my trust in them. And in all honesty it pales in comparison to this. Also seeing as how long it's taken them to respond here, and how quickly they reduced the CPTK upgrade price, I believe they planned for it to be $599 from the beginning. But that's unimportant here.

What is important, as this issue may be keeping others, that aren't even owners of these controllers from upgrading. I know it is me. I may be the only one. I just want avid to know it's affecting more than pro control and control 24 owners.

I'll even offer something I see as an option other than the often mentioned, and seemingly to me simplest, updated drivers. Maybe they come out with a new eucon based controller that fills the gap between artist series and the current C|24. And have a trade-in that's super reasonable. I don't think anyone here is super excited about "upgrading" to C|24. So make this a new controller that people can feel confident will be supported for a long time. And with avid buying euphonix, that is the most reasonable option I see. Maybe it could even be a C|32 or something. But eucon based. And like I said a honest decent trade-in deal. Maybe even include HD|N or HDx options.

That's one thing that has seemingly got lost are the trade-in programs. They may not be an ideal way of increasing profits, but increasing customer confidence can have a huge impact on profit margins.

Anyways back to the main point. Avid this affects more than owners of these control surfaces. At least in my case, and I wouldn't think I'm the only one.

[GuyPicks]

Need control/24 drivers for PT11 here.

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by Shan

How do you know you'll get 5 more years? That's just a guess.

Given that Avid has been recently using five years from "Last Sale Date" to EOS, and that Avid sells to the US government, I wouldn't be afraid to plan on the five years that is currently being used by Avid.

Avid doesn't even know themselves.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but you can take it to the bank that Avid does know.

Once the EOL date is reached, Avid then runs on this policy that they have posted many times, "We won't intentionally disable or break it, but if a change in the PT software makes it nonfunctional, we won't fix it". That's where many of their current EOL products stand right now.

And your point is?

You might get 5 years from initial release date, you might get 10. Would you purchase the currently selling $10,000 6 year old C|24?

I would probably buy Artist stuff over the C|24, mainly because the Artist gear works with other DAW's. But if I were in a situation where I needed the C|24's feature set I wouldn't have any problem buying one.

What about the currently selling 5 year old Icon D-Control ES, that one can easily invest over $100,000 in?

I have no use for a D-Control, but if I had the money I would buy a D-Command ES 24 in a heartbeat.

Once they're bricked, they have no resale value at all. With this kind of large monetary investment involved, many are going to consider product longevity and resale value as part of their purchasing decision, and even future upgrading. There's a larger picture in the Avid ecosystem that needs to be considered here.

Shane

Avid's big customers don't even consider a D-Control purchase an investment. It's just a capital expenditure. They don't really care about product lifetime as long as it is as specified, and they don't consider the resale value. Once the item has depreciated out it really has no value to them.

There are just a lot of people on here who have no idea how big business works...

[Bill Denton]

Originally Posted by CME

I've been reading this for a while. Even posted way back. Anyways, to me this is one of the more important issues in whether or not I upgrade to PT11. And I don't even own one of the controllers.

Avid has said they're wanting to change and listen to their customers. But so far it seems all is the same as it was. I was bit by the CPTK issue. That rocked my trust in them. And in all honesty it pales in comparison to this. Also seeing as how long it's taken them to respond here, and how quickly they reduced the CPTK upgrade price, I believe they planned for it to be $599 from the beginning. But that's unimportant here.

What is important, as this issue may be keeping others, that aren't even owners of these controllers from upgrading. I know it is me. I may be the only one. I just want avid to know it's affecting more than pro control and control 24 owners.

I'll even offer something I see as an option other than the often mentioned, and seemingly to me simplest, updated drivers. Maybe they come out with a new eucon based controller that fills the gap between artist series and the current C|24. And have a trade-in that's super reasonable. I don't think anyone here is super excited about "upgrading" to C|24. So make this a new controller that people can feel confident will be supported for a long time. And with avid buying euphonix, that is the most reasonable option I see. Maybe it could even be a C|32 or something. But eucon based. And like I said a honest decent trade-in deal. Maybe even include HD|N or HDx options.

That's one thing that has seemingly got lost are the trade-in programs. They may not be an ideal way of increasing profits, but increasing customer confidence can have a huge impact on profit margins.

Anyways back to the main point. Avid this affects more than owners of these control surfaces. At least in my case, and I wouldn't think I'm the only one.

Upgrades from older control surfaces to C|24, D-Command, and D-Control are available now, and have been available for quite a while...

[CME]

Originally Posted by Bill Denton

Upgrades from older control surfaces to C|24, D-Command, and D-Control are available now, and have been available for quite a while...

Yes I know. But who is really interested in upgrading to one of those? The C|24 seems like an expensive crossgrade and the d-command and d-control are already on the way out. Who knows how much longer the C|24 has. I know, I know, at least 5 more years from when it's EOL'd. And that could be tomorrow.

I'm just saying avid made some efforts on the surface to improve customer relations. But so far haven't done much to really change. Again simply an opinion.

[groundcontrol]

Originally Posted by CME

Avid has said they're wanting to change and listen to their customers. But so far it seems all is the same as it was. I was bit by the CPTK issue. That rocked my trust in them. And in all honesty it pales in comparison to this. Also seeing as how long it's taken them to respond here, and how quickly they reduced the CPTK upgrade price, I believe they planned for it to be $599 from the beginning. But that's unimportant here.

Unfortunately, I mostly have to agree with you there...

Originally Posted by CME

Maybe they come out with a new eucon based controller that fills the gap between artist series and the current C|24. And have a trade-in that's super reasonable. I don't think anyone here is super excited about "upgrading" to C|24.

This we can pretty much assume is what's coming at next AES with the recently unveiled LS3 for the live market.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by Bill Denton

Given that Avid has been recently using five years from "Last Sale Date" to EOS, and that Avid sells to the US government, I wouldn't be afraid to plan on the five years that is currently being used by Avid.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, but you can take it to the bank that Avid does know.

And your point is?

As I mentioned earlier, it's still a guess and that's all it can ever be. How can Avid even know when they have repeatedly stated that EOL devices operate on this policy:

"We won't intentionally disable or break it, but if a change in the PT software makes it nonfunctional, we won't fix it".

They don't know themselves until a change in the PT code actually bricks the device. If they knew in advance that PT 11 would brick these devices, I'm sure they would've issued fair warning on that. Are you're saying they issue statements like this but that's not really the case? I find that hard to believe.

Originally Posted by Bill Denton

Avid's big customers don't even consider a D-Control purchase an investment. It's just a capital expenditure. They don't really care about product lifetime as long as it is as specified, and they don't consider the resale value. Once the item has depreciated out it really has no value to them.

There are just a lot of people on here who have no idea how big business works...

3 years ago the owner of a project studio I was working out of wanted to invest in either an analog console or hardware controller. I took him to the local music store with a showroom and showed him the D-Control, D-Command and SSL 900. The very first words out of his mouth were, "What do you think the resale value of these will be 10 to 20 years from now?". This is a true event that happened. Unfortunately, I knew that 15 to 20 years from now the D-Control and D-Command would be questionable at best. The SSL 900 on the other hand would still be functional with a high resale value 20 years from now. Though I really wanted him to invest in the D-Control or D-Command, I had to be honest with my reply. As a business decision, Avid hardware controllers were a complete loss and a disposable investment that he just couldn't justify. This individual is very much a successful businessman and definitely cared about the longevity of his investments.

I just talked with a fellow mixer who works in a facility that has $15k in custom furniture across 2 rooms for a C|24 and a D-Command ES. That's just the enclosures, never mind the actual cost of the controllers. There is no way he can convince the owner to scrap that investment when Avid decides to kill off those surfaces. Users are going to need a lot of convincing to invest in any future hardware controllers from Avid now in my opinion. That's the word I'm getting out in the real world just talking with these people.

I could be wrong here, but I thought you were an owner of one of these control surfaces. Do you own or use on a daily basis one of these Avid hardware controllers?

Shane

[lampmusic]

Just my .02

I am really enjoying some of the new features in PTHD11 on my native systems.

Coincidentally I had just dropped of my Control 24 to the local tech shop for the infamous power supply issue about 2 weeks before 11 dropped.

Needless to say I have a pristine argosy desk that has been retrofitted with an old Euphonix MC mix unit. Looks kinda funny sitting in the big argosy desk, but it gets the job done.

I worked out a deal with my local avid dealer to get $2500 in trade for the control 24. Better to get that out of it now than much less in a while.

It's truly disappointing that control 24 won't go beyond 10, but fortunately it has paid for itself since install in 2004.

Only nagging question thing from clients - - "What happened to your big mixer?" I get this every other day

Peace