Drum Replacing

[revert979]

Originally Posted by Shan

Definitely. I use a combination of tools myself as there never seems to be a "do all" app out there. The best results I always seem to get though is doing it all manually. It's painful and slow...but the results just cant be beat with any automated process. A combination of tools and techniques seem to be my approach. The DTM is pretty killer and worth checking out.

Shane

Wow. Props to you Shan. I was doing that for a bit when I first got into ProTools, but the drums were coming out too static, because, for example, I would just use the same snare sample over and over again. I had decided even that was just way too much damn work for me

I guess I'm lazy. Although, I do find that when it comes to editing the timing, I still do the old way of chopping them up and moving the regions. As opposed to using the warp feature. Warping is definitely quicker, no doubt, but I think chopping them up sounds a bit better. So maybe I'm not THAT lazy

[Third Eye Studios]

My previous method was to write plugin automation to get Drumagog to trigger properly, but these days I "prep" the tracks in Pro Tools for triggering with Drumagog. I'll beat detective, edit, and replace any soft hits that are not being triggered properly with good hits that trigger correctly. Recording the audio from actual drum triggers can help tremendously, especially for metal. I use DDrum triggers on kick, snare, and toms. Just more ways to get to San Jose.

Sometimes though I'll still use Sound replacer. I like occasionally because it has a "feel" to it on kick drums that works well for certain types of metal.

I wish digi would fix Drum rehab, because I really liked the concept.

[revert979]

Originally Posted by Third Eye Studios

My previous method was to write plugin automation to get Drumagog to trigger properly, but these days I "prep" the tracks in Pro Tools for triggering with Drumagog. I'll beat detective, edit, and replace any soft hits that are not being triggered properly with good hits that trigger correctly. Recording the audio from actual drum triggers can help tremendously, especially for metal. I use DDrum triggers on kick, snare, and toms. Just more ways to get to San Jose.

Third Eye you bring up a method I've been curious about, which is using actual acoustic drum triggers. I know they're used a lot in metal, especially for live shows. I think Roland makes a trigger to midi converter too. So I'm assuming I could have it come out of the converter directly into my 003R and record a midi track? That would be a cool way of doing it.

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by revert979

Third Eye you bring up a method I've been curious about, which is using actual acoustic drum triggers. I know they're used a lot in metal, especially for live shows. I think Roland makes a trigger to midi converter too. So I'm assuming I could have it come out of the converter directly into my 003R and record a midi track? That would be a cool way of doing it.

not sure if thirdeye will respond right away, if so....sorry dana...... sure he can explain it better since he does it all the time, but his triggers do not convert to midi, they basically create a "click" of audio if you will that is recorded to a track and is velocity sensitive of course. then coming back with drumagog it will easily trigger to the clicks created and velocity of the "clicks" will respond in drumagog to go to what velocity level. or with sound replacer on the kick drum it will have a nice clean trigger to replace.

[revert979]

Originally Posted by guitardom

not sure if thirdeye will respond right away, if so....sorry dana...... sure he can explain it better since he does it all the time, but his triggers do not convert to midi, they basically create a "click" of audio if you will that is recorded to a track and is velocity sensitive of course. then coming back with drumagog it will easily trigger to the clicks created and velocity of the "clicks" will respond in drumagog to go to what velocity level. or with sound replacer on the kick drum it will have a nice clean trigger to replace.

Ah... interesting. Thanks guitardom!

[Third Eye Studios]

Originally Posted by guitardom

not sure if thirdeye will respond right away, if so....sorry dana...... sure he can explain it better since he does it all the time, but his triggers do not convert to midi, they basically create a "click" of audio if you will that is recorded to a track and is velocity sensitive of course. then coming back with drumagog it will easily trigger to the clicks created and velocity of the "clicks" will respond in drumagog to go to what velocity level. or with sound replacer on the kick drum it will have a nice clean trigger to replace.

That's it! Probably can't explain it better than you. I use the DDrum Pro triggers. They have a XLR out that I record through a mic pre (not a fancy one-just an extra channel) to their own audio track. The triggers don't have as many of the problems with false/missed hits as mics.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by revert979

Wow. Props to you Shan. I was doing that for a bit when I first got into ProTools, but the drums were coming out too static, because, for example, I would just use the same snare sample over and over again. I had decided even that was just way too much damn work for me

Ya, in the past I've even done multi sample replacement/augmentation manually. Painfully slow and very time consuming, even when you get a fast workflow down. These days I use a combination of tools. It's a combination of Beat Detective/EA/DTM/manual edits etc. Certain tasks require certain approaches that work best I find. Nothing seems to beat the old fashion manually approach as far as quality, but it's time consuming work I try to avoid whenever possible.

As a side note, I do use static one shot samples to layer with real drums and percussion now and then. The key is to match each velocity hit of the real performance and bring it slightly under to beef up the tone a wee bit. One approach of many of course.

Shane

[albee1952]

I'm gonna have to try this MIDI stuff from Drumagog. FWIW, I haven't noticed any latency issues, even when blending the original with the replacement samples. Today I made a whole batch of samples using stereo from ezdrummer and included the room/overheads in the samples. That should make the next DR project interesting.

[GenerationM]

Good morning all:

I have been reading many of the previous posts on Drum replacement and Drumagog, and as I get closer to finalizing the mixes for our new album, I have run into some issues with Drumagog's latency that have, at times, almost put me over the edge. I have noticed that guitardom has sort of been the unofficial 'authority' on latency related issues with Drumagog, but even so, I just wanted to find out if I'm reading all these posts correctly...

My issue is that when bouncing my stereo Drumagog track that contains my Steven Slate Z2 samples, if I go back in and manually measure the delay (using the tab-to-transient mode) for various drum hits the sample delay can be 3206 for one, 3404 for another, similarly for the whole track. The maximum reported latency for the plugin is isted at 73.22 ms (3229.002 samples at 44.1k), but even when nudging the track back by that amount, I can still hear some phasing on the hits that drift by more than the indicated latency.

After going through the Drumagog/Steven Slate/DUC forums, it appears that there are others that have experienced this. Rim from WaveMachine Labs, had suggested turning off the Auto-Align - can anyone verify that this will keep the sample delay consistent for all drum hits? If so, then I may use that as my workaround.

Short of separating each drum hit again (Beat Det. has already been done on all the drum tracks), can anyone suggest a way to correct this problem, or will turning off the Auto-Align work in this case? Most of the tracks on the album have fairly simple rock beats, with minimal fills.

For reference, I'm using PT 7.4cs8 and Drumagog 4.10 on my Tyan Quad.

Hope this is enough information...

Regards,
Jeff

[GenerationM]

had to bump this one, as it seems to be getting buried in here...still having issues with Drumagog when bouncing my tracks down...most of the hits are in phase and aligned properly, it just seems that after I've already used BD on the track, I shouldn't have to go back in and realign replacement hits that are drifting...

Anyone that uses Drumagog have any tips or recommended settings to minimize the drift caused when bouncing down to and audio track? Any help is appreciated...

Regards,
Jeff