Drum Replacing

[revert979]

I had posted on here a few weeks ago of my troubles with TL Drum Rehab. For those of you who may care to read, here it is:

http://duc.digidesign.com/showthread.php?t=236976

Since then, I ditched Drum Rehab and picked up Massey's DTM and Structure. First off, all I can say about Massey's DTM is WOW. It's awesome. And the fact that it's FREE?? Holy crap. Ok, maybe not free, because you have to buy one of his other plugs. But seriously. DTM craps on Drum Rehab and Drumagog as far as triggering accuracy is concerned.

Drum Rehab, was pretty accurate with snare and kick, but I always felt I had to go in and tighten it up most of the time. Plus, for toms Drum Rehab fell apart. I would get all sorts of added triggers, missed hits. It was a nightmare. Drumagog wasn't bad most of the time, but if it missed a flam or something because it thinks it's one hit, you were screwed. You'd have to print out the results and then add in an audio sample yourself.

DTM on the other hand is EXTREMELY accurate. Damn near down to the sample. I was very impressed (obviously). It's not perfect, it does miss the occasional flam or ghost note, or it will trigger a false hit because of bleed. But it's a breeze to fix in midi.

Using Structure to sample my drums is pretty powerful as well. I was pleased to find out I can set up multiple velocity zones with multiple samples in each. Being able to edit the audio sample within the plug is pretty useful too.

It definitely took me a while to learn everything, especially Structure, because I had never worked with midi before. But it was definitely worth it! I finally feel like I've settled on a drum replacing solution. Just thought I'd share my experience

[Kris75]

Welcome to drum replacement

[TOM@METRO]

Good choices.

[sw rec]

Would like to add my experience with Tl drum rehab...I also experienced a lot of false triggering, and finally shelved it in favor of Digi's own Sound Replacer, which does exactly what i need it to do every time. Tried the Drumagog demo but it was too limited to allow me to really test it.

[guitardom]

i replace and sample probably to many drums! but i use bfd2, drumagog, soundreplacer all in conjunction with each other depending on what i am doing.

drumagog is really an amazing program when you get into the heart of it and really learn how to use it. you can also trigger bfd samples through drumagog and can trigger drumagog via midi, and i use soundreplacer on tracks that are nice clean and is very quick. typically kicks and if the tom tracks are clean and very basic in playing.

obviously there can be latency issues, but you learn those after a few uses. i know when drumagog is at maximum settings it is 3229 samples of latency. dupe the track i wanna trigger, nudge it back by that amount and start layering on and checking drum samples.

its all trial and error and finding what works for you. speaking of that i just got my steven slate 3.0 upgrade!

[albee1952]

Its interesting how we each find the way to get things done. I use Drumagog and absolutely love it(never tried the others except Sound Replacer). The trick with Drumagog is to automate the sensitivity and I can get to work on flams and such and I haven't met a drum track that I couldn't fix with it. I went and made a batch of sample hits pulled from ezdrummer. Using the Drumagog blend control acts as a kind of gate too as it allows the mic bleed to come thru as the original drum sound is brought in. I'll have to check out the Massey plug. He makes some great stuff.

[revert979]

Originally Posted by albee1952

The trick with Drumagog is to automate the sensitivity and I can get to work on flams and such and I haven't met a drum track that I couldn't fix with it.

Agreed, Drumagog could be quite good after automating a bunch of things. But that seemed too time consuming to me, and furthermore, even after that you're still relying on an automatic triggering system. I like being able to edit individual triggers if need be.

Originally Posted by albee1952

I'll have to check out the Massey plug. He makes some great stuff.

I can't say enough good things about DTM, and his plugs. Being fairly new to ProTools and DAW's in general (I've been working with it for about a year now), I was amazed at the quality of stuff he puts out compared to the price.

Originally Posted by guitardom

obviously there can be latency issues...

That was another thing that bugged me about Drumagog. I'm assuming the latency comes from the fact that it's an automated triggering system? The great thing about using DTM and Structure is that, once the drums are in midi, I can listen to the entire mix before printing anything. I've got my snare midi track, kick midi track, etc. Plus, from there I can edit velocity, placement, and even the samples used without having to back track at all. Once I have my mix going, say I think that one drum fill is a little too dynamic. I can simply dial it down on the midi track. Or say after a couple days I decide that the kick sample isn't quite what I wanted. It takes two seconds to swap it out with something else. Flexibility is the name of the game for me.

Both Drumagog and Drum Rehab I thought had a lot of potential, but just fell short in some areas. Drumagog didn't quite have the options that I wanted, while Drum Rehab was just broke.

Originally Posted by TOM@METRO

Good choices.

Thanks Tom!

[Shan]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Its interesting how we each find the way to get things done...

Definitely. I use a combination of tools myself as there never seems to be a "do all" app out there. The best results I always seem to get though is doing it all manually. It's painful and slow...but the results just cant be beat with any automated process. A combination of tools and techniques seem to be my approach. The DTM is pretty killer and worth checking out.

Shane

[guitardom]

[quote=revert979;1360721]Agreed, Drumagog could be quite good after automating a bunch of things. But that seemed too time consuming to me, and furthermore, even after that you're still relying on an automatic triggering system. I like being able to edit individual triggers if need be.


That was another thing that bugged me about Drumagog. I'm assuming the latency comes from the fact that it's an automated triggering system? The great thing about using DTM and Structure is that, once the drums are in midi, I can listen to the entire mix before printing anything. I've got my snare midi track, kick midi track, etc. Plus, from there I can edit velocity, placement, and even the samples used without having to back track at all. Once I have my mix going, say I think that one drum fill is a little too dynamic. I can simply dial it down on the midi track. Or say after a couple days I decide that the kick sample isn't quite what I wanted. It takes two seconds to swap it out with something else. Flexibility is the name of the game for me.

Both Drumagog and Drum Rehab I thought had a lot of potential, but just fell short in some areas. Drumagog didn't quite have the options that I wanted, while Drum Rehab was just broke.

quote]


dont take drumagog to lightly, especially with with the amount of velocity layers you can use and you can really dial in the controls on it and some very cool options for audio like mixing in the actual audio if you wish, a sine wave generator to trigger w the plugs, can see and mute out individual samples and velocities i dont want triggered, lots of cool things.

the latency is not a big deal when working with audio, and will trigger w midi as well. duping and nudging a track is seconds of time, less than a minute for sure. drum rehab has had bugs that have never been resolved from day 1. but dont be dismissing apps to lightly and never hold back from asking others who have experience in certain apps about setting up and operating.

anytime your sampling drums and triggering drums a little extra time to make sure hits are good, maybe automating a parameter or 2 in a certain spot or just copying a hit to a certain spot is a small price to pay and would never dismiss an app cause it is not 100% if you find an app you think is perfect you are either not using it or you are not expecting much!!

will also say the massey stuff is no secret around here. by far the best bang for the buck in plugins. his ct4 and l2007 limiter are usable on anything!

[revert979]

Originally Posted by guitardom

dont take drumagog to lightly, especially with with the amount of velocity layers you can use and you can really dial in the controls on it and some very cool options for audio like mixing in the actual audio if you wish, a sine wave generator to trigger w the plugs, can see and mute out individual samples and velocities i dont want triggered, lots of cool things.

the latency is not a big deal when working with audio, and will trigger w midi as well. duping and nudging a track is seconds of time, less than a minute for sure. drum rehab has had bugs that have never been resolved from day 1. but dont be dismissing apps to lightly and never hold back from asking others who have experience in certain apps about setting up and operating.

anytime your sampling drums and triggering drums a little extra time to make sure hits are good, maybe automating a parameter or 2 in a certain spot or just copying a hit to a certain spot is a small price to pay and would never dismiss an app cause it is not 100% if you find an app you think is perfect you are either not using it or you are not expecting much!!

will also say the massey stuff is no secret around here. by far the best bang for the buck in plugins. his ct4 and l2007 limiter are usable on anything!

I'm not trying to discount Drumagog. It just wasn't for me Like albee said, its interesting how we each find the way to get things done. And, I didn't hold back from asking others. That's how I came to find DTM and Structure. Through this forum.