Fine breakpoint adjustment change in 12.6 = Showstopper

[moshuajusic]

Originally Posted by Shan

Instead of tackling this as a momentary switch, how about perhaps having a look at just making it a regular toggle? I can only speak from my own experience, but an easily accessible Slip/Grid toggle command is easier to use and far more user friendly than a multi fingered modifier Slip/Grid momentary command when editing. There's also the advantage of knowing what mode you're in via the Slip/Grid UI buttons in the main toolbar and via the UI grid color in the edit window.

The way it works in 12.6 is FAR smoother. And I don't even have to look anywhere to know which mode I'm in. The whole point of the change was to make grid and slip seamless mirrors, so that people who normally work in slip but occasionally need to snap things to grid can do so on the fly, and vice versa. Momentary is optimal. Avid had the right idea. The implementation bugged people out because it changes mod key combos for some editing behaviors, and is flawed and inconsistent. But the flaws and inconsistencies stem from the fact that "legacy" editing is also flawed and inconsistent. You've just grown accustomed to it. Avid's got work to do either way.

Originally Posted by Shan

If a user absolutely wants a Slip/Grid toggle(or momentary) command, it's easily done for now using QuicKeys/AutoHotKey/AppleScript etc. There's also the advantage of it working in PT 5.0.1-12.6, using the key/mouse button of one's choice, and knowing what mode you're in via the Slip/Grid UI buttons and via the actual UI grid color in the edit window. For those on the Windows platform, grab AHK(free) and use the following script for a Slip/Grid toggle assigned to the key/mouse button of your choice:

#IfWinActive ahk_class DigiAppWndClass

;Slip Grid Toggle Action

Button2::
toggle := !toggle
    
if (toggle) {
    SendInput {F2}
} else {
    SendInput {F4}
}
return

"Button2" above can be any key, mouse button, or key command combination of your choice. Just make the change. Making this script a momentary command instead of it's current toggle command is also easily done. If anyone opts for that version, just let me know.

If this involves disabling some other key's typical function in Pro Tools, it's no better a solution than the current 12.6 implementation.

Command now does the same thing in both grid and slip. In that sense, editing behavior is actually more consistent in 12.6 than previous versions.

[TOM@METRO]

Originally Posted by jscomposer

editing behavior is actually more consistent in 12.6 than previous versions.

But when you work on numerous systems (and numerous versions), this change brings along a nightmare of inconsistency. If we keep this change, we must have a preference to revert it to legacy.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by TOM@METRO

But when you work on numerous systems (and numerous versions), this change brings along a nightmare of inconsistency. If we keep this change, we must have a preference to revert it to legacy.

Indeed. On PT 10 this afternoon, and PT 12 this evening. That's just the reality of working in the local professional facilities.

Shane

[moshuajusic]

Are there any differences, functionally, between slip mode and slip-grid combo mode in previous versions? They seem to be identical.

[AINSLIE]

Please - this is crazy. For example - The behavior for creating and moving a breakpoint in slip mode is nuts. Command + click is require to add the breakpoint, but if you try to move it the point will snap to grid unless you add option key. Former setup was more elegant (simple) and consistent between modes. I don't think this was a well conceived change. We already had simple way to change modes via F keys. no need for additional modifiers to force or defeat grid.

PLEASE allow legacy preference!

Originally Posted by TOM@METRO

But when you work on numerous systems (and numerous versions), this change brings along a nightmare of inconsistency. If we keep this change, we must have a preference to revert it to legacy.

[Tyranor]

I'm on PT11HD so don't have this issue but I must say I'm completely lost after reading this thread. So many pages and arguments :)

I suppose that the golden rules is "Don't break something that works" and in that regards and in many others the best option will be to revert back to the original behaviour.

But one thing is certain, after reading this thread I want to learn about Basstian's workflow in regards of editing DX and using clip gain breakpoint adjustments.

[Matt Hepworth]

Originally Posted by jscomposer

shift-command does what you want.

No, it doesn't. It let's the node be dropped in on target, but does NOT allow for fine adjustment. You have to use Shft+Cmd to create the node, then release it and then press Cmd to do the movement. It's absolutely broken.

[Matt Hepworth]

I work with 10, 12.4, and 12.6 daily. This is a ludicrous change and simply needs to be an option to revert to proper (AVID will say Legacy) command or reverted completely. I have no idea how this could have possibly made it through beta without an uproar.

My studio partner is teaching a college Pro Tools course right now that requires PT10 or later. Students are mixed and this is throwing yet another wrench into the works.

[moshuajusic]

Originally Posted by Matt Hepworth

No, it doesn't. It let's the node be dropped in on target, but does NOT allow for fine adjustment. You have to use Shft+Cmd to create the node, then release it and then press Cmd to do the movement. It's absolutely broken.

It wasn't clear to me that you meant create the breakpoint and move it with the same click. In slip mode, command-click lets you put it exactly where you want it and move it in all directions smoothly, without snapping to grid. (Yet ANOTHER inconsistency, since command is now supposed to snap to grid. ) While you're moving it around or even before you start moving it, add shift & option for fine adjustment.

In grid mode, unrestricted fine adjustment exclusively snaps to grid, which also makes no sense if command is supposed to toggle to slip mode.

Long story short, 2-way seamless on-the-fly grid/slip toggle is a awesome idea (and absolutely doable in a way that preserves legacy editing). Avid just completely, utterly FUBAR'd it on first attempt.

[Matt_G]

Originally Posted by Basstian

ok. this makes 12.6 useless. only vertical fine adjustment. and different modifierers tor fine adjustment in different tasks

who is deciding stuff like that?

Firstly, what the hell did Avid do?!? This is single handedly one of the most commonly used functions for volume editing and now it's rendered utterly useless in 12.6. I use manual fine adjustment of gain nodes daily in my workflow and there are two main issues which have broken that in 12.6 which I can see. The first is when you hold 'command' while dragging a gain node (in slip mode) it constrains movement to the grid (which can be worked around with The Weed's post below - thank-you!). Secondly adding the 'shift' key for fine adjustment constrains any movement 'vertically'. Really a complete mess and this needs to be fixed ASAP in the next point release. Whether the fix is a legacy check box in the preferences pain or some other way of implementing the new feature, it needs to be set right and quickly.

Originally Posted by The Weed

Here's a kluge:

Set the Grid to 1 sample. Now the node will only move 1 sample when you just use CTRL. The only problem is, to get the .1 db fine tuning, you still have to use Shift as well as Ctrl. At least with this kluge, you don't have to remember to hold down Shift before you hold down Ctrl.

Not ideal, but an easy work around until - yeah right - Avid come to their senses and, since I'm sure they won't be changing it back, at least give us an option to revert to the old behavior in Preferences. <sigh>