Pro Tools 9 is a SHAME for HD users!!!!!

[Shan]

Originally Posted by AriM

just to clarify are you saying that TDM plugz are NOT latency free and can't be enable on a record armed track? because that is what your reply is stating

No. My statement is to be read verbatim with no implied meaning:

Originally Posted by Shan

This is far from fact, as one can definitely record through RTAS on any native system with the plug-ins fully enabled. Always could.

That said, TDM plug-ins alone are not latency free. RTAS plug-ins have always been lower in latency over TDM plug-ins, anywhere from 3 to 5 samples.

As long as there is a demand for HD, and there definitely is, Avid will deliver to that demand. It definitely isn't going anywhere.

Shane

[typewriter]

Originally Posted by Dannyd

This PT 9 sounds like that Avid wants "fix" their reputation because some hackers did (this summer) that PT HD work without dsp cards and, even, with the built-in card.

You nailed it. I was wondering that nobody mentioned it before. I am pretty sure that without this hack we never would have seen AVID giving up the "hardware dongel business". I think there was even a program floating around to patch drivers of other interfaces to make them work with Pro Tools.

I buyed many M-Box/LE systems for my school. Since the upgrade price is literally the same as we payed for the mboxes I am not sure if we'll upgrade any time soon since our funds are limited. It's time for a good EDU program, AVID.

We also have a complete HD studio with an ICON console for our film students. Not sure what will now happen to this one now.

[Brahamnesik]

Originally Posted by AriM

just earlier in this thread, you stated that you thought your cards were worth $900....big difference between $2250 and $900....also $2250 is overpriced....just go look on e-bay or contact a reputable broker about what the value is....good luck...I have a feeling you will be VERY sorry you got rid of the HD rig....it's already paid for man, think about it

Good point, you are right.

I can drop the price to 1590$ for an HD Accel PCIe card which is 6 months old and still under warranty. I have 2 of them.

Low ballers already PM'd me and one of them offered 1500$ for the 2 cards! Scarry, isn't it?

For those of you who are wondering if they should keep their HD rig, you should try the HD Native card, it's convincing and feels like a full blown HD rig with an average 4 cores mac. The latency is comparable to HD cards.

I was very skeptical about this product but my friend convinced me that the real selling argument of this product is "upgrade". And that's right, you're future proof in terms of processing power. So yes, it still can be considered as a big dongle but it's worth it for those who'd like to keep their Digi interfaces.

So I apologize for the bad words about the HD Native

[acmost]

As a HD2 guy who just couldn't deal with LE anymore I haven't looked back since I bought HD.

I don't have a problem at all...with the 350 upgrade to run it on a laptop without any cards. Who hasn't wanted to be able to do that forever?
That said..I definitely see the argument that says they shafted HD buyers...absolutely.
I still think Native folks will run into some of the same problems they always have had(that's why I went HD) but they got ADC now....certainly a plus.
YMMV.

I've always been able to see the Nuendo/Logic vs. all things Digi argument, I just prefer Pro Tools software. I won't buy any new Avid HD cards if they come out with them though.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by Brahamnesik

So I apologize for the bad words about the HD Native

On a positive note, definitely keep us posted on your HD Native venture. I'll be taking this route myself.

Shane

[kbruff]

Originally Posted by bjorn for a reason

Congrats AVID on a bold move.
My personal (happy) upgrade history:
Let's see....
Sound tools 2500 (donated to school)
audio media II 900 (fried)
Digi 001 750 (in a closet)
Mbox 250 (kids toy)
digi 002 #1 900 (still making $)
Pro tools III tdm 7500 (donated to church)
Mix IV rig 32io 9000 (Still making $)
Mix IV rig 40io 2500 ( purchased last year for installation)
HD 3 accel 10000 (still making $)

Only 35K invested over a 15 year period.
Peanuts compared to the return over that span. Way >5%....
(Wish my large format consoles had ROI like that)
If you're in this for profit, you'll run the numbers and upgrade when the numbers dictate, knowing that "better faster" is coming.
It's all part of your business strategy.
You know your LONG TERM PLAN?
If you're a project guy, who cares? Your rig didn't just stop working.
The bad news for some is.....
Everybody has decent gear now...
It's about chops, service and business model now.
Let the fittest survive!

Interesting post.

[la-2a]

For me the reason to use Protools HD was always the best sounding audio engine ever .! I used the hardware together with Logic Pro. But this feature was canceled. Protools is a nice multitrack recorder but not the best midi sequencer......

I hoped the new version would bring some new features in the MIDI / Instrument editing, track folders, automatic track creating while recording in loop mode, offline bouncing, interleaved stereo tracks, better midi event editor, different sample rates together in one session......just a small selection of my most wanted features


I don´t really get much more for the money in PT9 HD.! Does somebody knows about some new software features.??

Does anybody compared the the sound of an native VS an TDM rig.??
cheers

[AriM]

Originally Posted by Shan

How about I just show you what happens.

Again, one can definitely record through RTAS on any native system with the plug-ins fully enabled. Always could.

Shane

Look I don't want to beat this to death, because there is an obvious lack of understanding among non TDM/HD owners....and native guys will always try to justify that their native rig is somehow on par or better than TDM/HD

let me bring up a very important point about your picture....which goes back to proving my original point....do you notice how there is no input monitoring button on your screen shot



also at 96k there is no option for a h/w buffer under 128 samples....and even then 128 samples is a dodgy buffer setting (at best...noise clicks etc)...

if it makes you feel better I am running 9 on a system with no AVID hardware what so ever....and I use that system do do some light VI based writing....using a cheapo creative SB titanium/x-fi whatever the eff it is (frys bargain basement).....which is fine for some light duty work on my CS5 rig (I also do video post and CG)....and even that powerhouse of a rig (980x, UD9, GTX480's, 24GB of fast ddr3) can't even come close to my lesser i7 875k based TDM rig....

honestly to even make any kind of implication that native can even come close to TDM is simply off-base....and I don't think that ANY TDM/HD power user would argue that

I think it becomes painfully obvious in a professional situation (where studio time with an orchestra is costing $6k an hour) that native is unacceptable....these are the situations I am used to facing....$35k on a rock solid TDM rig is peanuts in that situation....

I don't think this is a fruitful dialogue, because I think a lot of native users/owners will always try to justify that their rig is somehow on par with HD/TDM....

it's just pointless to go on any further....good luck to you on your projects and profession....I know what works for me, and I own BOTH TDM/NATIVE rigs and I can tell you from first hand experience (for over 15 years of use) that native would NEVER cut it in my situation...

[Seagate Studio]

I'm just disappointed that there are no listed bug fixes or interesting new features. I take it bouncing to disk is still realtime, unlike every other DAW on the planet? It's hardly a major upgrade, should be called Pro Tools |Native 1.0.

[Shan]

Originally Posted by AriM

Look I don't want to beat this to death, because there is an obvious lack of understanding among non TDM/HD owners....and native guys will always try to justify that their native rig is somehow on par or better than TDM/HD

let me bring up a very important point about your picture....which goes back to proving my original point....do you notice how there is no input monitoring button on your screen shot

Open up PT HD Native and you'll definitely see per channel input monitoring mode.

Originally Posted by AriM

also at 96k there is no option for a h/w buffer under 128 samples....and even then 128 samples is a dodgy buffer setting (at best...noise clicks etc)...

You might use both, but your lack of knowledge is clearly demonstrable as I continue to correct your misinformation. A buffer of 64 at 96K is not an issue and it is an option. I'll also add that very large sessions can be run at this sample rate with no noise, or clicks etc whatsoever. A system that doesn't, is a system that isn't set up properly. This is easily demonstrable. That said, TDM is not going to go anywhere.

Shane